Creative Commons license icon

Shawn Keller's Horrifying Look at the Furries

Your rating: None Average: 2.2 (5 votes)

The following article is a review of Shawn Keller's new comic book Shawn Keller's Horrifying Look at the Furries, released at San Diego Comic Con this weekend. The comic has something of a companion web site, located at www.furryfans.com. Read on for the review, which was submitted by an anonymous author.

There's an old Japanese story: Two monks sat together for lunch. The first monk said, "What do you see when you see me?"

The second replied, "I see a reflection of the Buddha."

The first, feeling nasty, said, "When I look at you, I see a pile of shit."

The second just smiled. The first turned angry. "Why are you smiling?"

The second replied, "What comes out of a man is a reflection of what's inside a man. I am filled with the Buddha nature, so everywhere I look, I see a reflection of the Buddha."

This story illustrates the new comic book, "Shawn Keller's Horrifying Look at the Furries". Everywhere that Shawn looks at furry fandom, he sees shit, often literally.

I pity Shawn. He's a talented artist (he was an animator in many Disney films), and a talented costumer (he has contributed to the fursuit FAQ). But, this book demonstrates his talent for mud-flinging and bile. It is a collection of attacks and grudges, surpassing _Skunk_. He associates furries with pedophiles and bestiality.

I cannot understand why this book was published: the only people who might be interested in it are furry fans, but those are also the people that he attacks.

Is the book really that bad? Here's some quotes from the book:

"Without much in the way of a normal life, the Furry tends to spend 50 hours in a normal 24 hour day lurking in an online chat group, hoping that another creature will respond to their plaintive cry of 'Hiya. I do that too. Heh.' Long hours are also devoted to the exploration of inner trouser explosions, gastric phenomena, and the implanting of their genetic code into stuffed animals."

"Almost every costumer (or 'Fursuiter' as they are known in the fan world) we've come across promotes the idea that the only true way of having fun in a suit is by doing what we refer to in technical language as 'The Nasty'. This would explain the caked, matted fur soaked with bodily fluids that often appears in the crotch region of these vermin."

If you're looking for a strong comic critique of furry fandom, read Roberta Gregory's "Artistic Licentiousness". But if you like to wallow in hatred, "Shawn Keller's Horrifying Look at the Furries" is for you. Otherwise, skip it. Buying this book was my biggest mistake at San Diego Comic Con.

Comments

Your rating: None

The HREF code in the above message is incorrect. If you manually type in the URL as given, that will work, or just click here.

Your rating: None Average: 2 (2 votes)

*skims the Pressed Fur review*

Yeah, all in all (based on what I've seen at the website) I'd say that's pretty accurate. I'm rather surprised and impressed with some of the remarks Pressed Fur made about the reaction within the fandom -- pretty intelligent and insightful.

-Fer

-Feren
"We use them for divine retribution."

Your rating: None Average: 2.3 (4 votes)

I'm rather surprised and impressed with some of the remarks Pressed Fur made about the reaction within the fandom -- pretty intelligent and insightful.

Oh, I don't know. It needed to be said, but it's really pretty obvious. Or should be, anyway, to anyone who's spent much time in the fandom. A lot of people are just in denial about this stuff.

Your rating: None Average: 3.3 (4 votes)

Right that about does it for him.

He must be mentally defective in some way.

Your rating: None Average: 2.5 (8 votes)

See, this is exactly what I'd expect from furries. When confronted with criticism, you immediately assume the critic is mentally defective or has some agenda.

Did it ever occur to you that, while this is exaggerated (which it should be -- it's satire, after all), the things depicted in it all exist in the fandom to some extent or another?

Did it ever occur to you that maybe if furries stopped dismissing their critics as stupid and actually put some effort into changing how they present themselves, these things wouldn't keep cropping up?

But it's easier to blame someone else, isn't it?

Your rating: None Average: 5 (2 votes)

I don't believe that Shawn Keller is mentally defective.

The comic, which I have read, was filled with hate. I wish the anonymous reviewer had given more specifics about the personal attacks in the comic, though (s)he might have wanted to spare the victims more humiliation.

If anyone wants to contact Shawn Keller, to get his opinion of the article, his email address is 'fanmail@furryfans.com'.

Your rating: None Average: 4.5 (2 votes)

Good. Bad.

Well, the book is out. La De Da.

The good side is that it is very thorough and for the most part, and actually educational to those who know nothing of the fandom. Also, the art is very capable.

The (la de da) is for the not so goodness of it, and some hypocrisy in it too.

Firstly, it takes some uncalled for cheap shots at some specific people, which is very cruel and unnecessary in order to make the points in the book.

Also, the hypocrisy resides in that the author(s) also poke at alternate lifestyles which they themselves embrace, as if to separate themselves from the fandom and hide behind the book, perhaps in order to try to keep their names untarnished in life and at work, and distance themselves from 'furry', a lifestyle which they have actually lived for over a decade.

The only difference is that they are not at the extreme of the descriptions of 'furry types' detailed in the book, but at the very least they are their own 'furry paparazzi,' (from the book) making them furs indeed.

The most puzzling thing about the book is the motivation. If it is to inform the public about the evils that can reside in the fandom, more power to 'em. But if it is to merely take joy from those that simply share their artistic interests with others and make friendships from being in a group, such as in Yerf for example, then that is an unfortunate use of time, which only serves to hurt people who have done no harm to you.

Your rating: None Average: 1 (1 vote)

You may want to avoid using a blanket statement like you did in the first part of your coment because it is insulting all furries instead of only the furries that really can't take criticism. Like Shawn Keller, you made all furries a stereotype that for many is untrue. I agree with you when you say that these things happen. I would need to be extreemely retarded in order for something like that to slip from my memory. However, I'm not going to condem the fandom over what people choose do with their lives. I did occur to me that my way of life is considered discusting, but did it occur to you that I very well may enjoy the constant state of being a lowlife as dicribed by Keller? My response to your closing statement "But it's easier to blame someone else, isn't it?", I think that is exactly what you and Keller are doing in the first place. I suggest getting off your high horse and face the face the fact that you can't blame all furries as you are not the fandom massiah. This is Dogface D(y)m.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (1 vote)

Pardon?

Mentally balanced people don't write a HATE book and create a HATE website to illustrate BATE for members of a group.

Unless we are talking about the Truly Evil.

Which is it Evil or Insanity that wrote this book?

Put it a Different way, what is broken about Shawn Keller?

Your rating: None

EXCEPT!........

Mailing to 'fanmail@furryfans.com' implies I like what he is doing which I do not.

Same thing with buying the book. I would not want to finance a sequel.

:(

Your rating: None

I think we all know who the "furry paparazzi" jibe was really aimed at. Think about it...well known fur, sells pictures to magazines without getting permission from the people in them...keep thinking, it'll come to you...

Your rating: None Average: 2.7 (3 votes)

Did it ever occur to you that maybe if furries stopped dismissing their critics as stupid and actually put some effort into changing how they present themselves, these things wouldn't keep cropping up?

Did it ever occur to you that if furries like Shawn Keller changed the way they presented themselves, they wouldn't be dismissed as stupid? I mean, c'mon, why don't folks learn from the mistakes that made Burned Fur such a complete and utter failure instead of blindly repeating them?

>But it's easier to blame someone else, isn't it?

Congratulations. You've just won a big PKB on your glass house for that one.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (1 vote)

Hey,that reminds me-I have pics of Shawn in a bunny suit,and some interesting drawings involving copyrighted characters done by him.But no,the best way to deal with the antics of Messieurs Keller&Kuhn is to ignore them.Let them "good naturedly" kid us about our foibles-the only reason they did it was because of the Confurence drawing episode and the reaction they got-any attention is better than no attention.

So let them have their fun-maybe they will come up with a movie next,maybe they will find work again and be too busy to bother.

Your rating: None

Even tough it is completely wrong for someone to write about hating a group of people, it can be viewed as an outside look at the fandom. I'm sure that many of us are revulted by Keller's testemony, but there could be nothing wrong with him besides a bad view of furries. Being a fair muckracker myself, I've found that no group goes without contravercy. I suggest that all furs take this as an oppertunity to show the true moral value of the fandom instead of going along with Keller's plan to rustle our feathers. I know that the words "true moral value" sound like an oxy moron when refering to the fandom, but we need not resort to insults as we have seen Keller often produse for our displeasure. This is Dogface D(y)m.

Your rating: None Average: 1.3 (4 votes)

I don't know. To me it seemed more like satire than HATE. But I've come to realize furries have no sense of humor about themselves.

Your rating: None Average: 2 (2 votes)

Have you read the comic yet? If not, how can you know yet whether it's hateful or not? People who post stuff to Flayrah aren't exactly known for their impartiality.

Your rating: None Average: 1 (1 vote)

Ha! speaking like someone raised in the bosom of over tollerance. Shawn is neither insane or the pit of evil. He skewered, and satirized the excesses of the fandom, many of which I have seen in the past and present in the fandom. Let's just hope he can go deeper into some of the aspects of this sordid fandom in future issues. If you are a furry, you are not entitled to a right of respect. Respect is granted to individuals through positive actions. Shawn's got my respect.

Your rating: None Average: 1 (1 vote)

"Did it ever occur to you that maybe if furries stopped dismissing their critics as stupid and actually put some effort into changing how they present themselves,these things wouldn't keep cropping up?"

"Did it ever occur to you that if furries like Shawn Keller changed the way they presented themselves, they wouldn't be dismissed as stupid?"

Ah... so -that's- how critics like Shawn Keller get dismissed... "They make us look bad, so they're stupid, and who cares what they think anyway? Phhbbbttt." It suddenly ceases to be a matter of 'where there's smoke there might be fire' and becomes a matter of 'well, it's his own fault for thinking that way; look how he presents himself!'...

The more I read these responses, the more I look forward to actually -getting- a copy.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (2 votes)

I tend to agree. I don't think a fur suiter would realy that much hate for the fandom. Althoutgh, the entire article coinsides with statements I've seen that are direct insults created from real hate, so can you blame us for automaticaly vissioning the universal archive of a fur hater and having the pride to be offended. Sadly, this is a world where satires must be labled as such to know. If you want to hear about some of my failed satires, please contact me at my email: Tibiera_Riverwolf@yahoo.com or if you have yahoo messenger, Tibiera_Riverwolf. This is Dogface D(y)m

Your rating: None Average: 3.5 (2 votes)

If his comic is anything like the site mentioned in the artilce, I have reason to take offence, and I take back a coment that I have posted earlier saying that there could be nothing wrong with him besides his bad view of furies. There is without a doubt something wrong with Keller's mind. My suggestion: Keller goes to drug treatment. No one can be that grotesqe in the head without the assistance of a powerful hallusenegenic. This is Dogface D(y)m.

Your rating: None

Is there a thing as "over tolorance"? Do you enjoy seeing his trash? If that isn't the "pit of evil", I'd hate to see what is, and if that is your idea of satire, you're as demented as Keller. Why are you damning the furries when there are worse groups to deal with (example: the KKK)(not that that's the only one that's worse. It's just an example)? I also want to know why I'm not entitled to a right if respect. If "respect is granted through positive actions", you have been granted none from me. This is Dogface D(y)m, an unstereotypical furry.

Your rating: None Average: 4 (1 vote)

---

People who post stuff to Flayrah aren't exactly known for their impartiality.

---

Yeah, damn those people who dare to have an opinion, especially one that differs from the Generally Accepted Truth (or even some small faction's Truth). I mean, surely you are the only virtuous, truthful person without some agenda or another here, right?

Editorials (also known as "opinion columns" in the newspaper arena) and reviews are subject to this little number called personal opinion. If this concept bothers you, I strongly advise you to stay away from Slashdot, Flayrah, Furdom.Com, alt.fan.furry, CNN, MSNBC or any other number of places where people judge things against what they like and don't like, and then remark on it (film critics must burn you up). If you believe this is a worthwhile comic, then by all means get off your rear and send the Flayrah editors a rebuttal editorial. If you chose not to, you immediately forfeit your right to claim it is a biased post.

Your rating: None Average: 3 (3 votes)

Ah... so -that's- how critics like Shawn Keller get dismissed... "They make us look bad, so they're stupid, and who cares what they think anyway? Phhbbbttt." It suddenly ceases to be a matter of 'where there's smoke there might be fire' and becomes a matter of 'well, it's his own fault for thinking that way; look how he presents himself!'...The way everyone else presents themselves is important, but the way Shawn Keller presents himself isn't important? Interesting double-standard.Here's something to consider: The only thing Rich Chandler gained from his Mass Graves editorial was an entire newsgroup of people who didn't want to listen to him. Same thing happened with Burned Fur because of their Manifesto. Same thing will happen with Shawn Keller when (not if) folks get tired of his antics. At which point someone else will pick up the torch and the cycle will repeat itself.Not like it's gonna be anything we haven't already seen, of course; those who fail to learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them.

Your rating: None Average: 1 (2 votes)

Why would any self-respecting person send a rebuttal to Flayrah? They're a furry booster site, they aren't going to print anything negative.

Your rating: None Average: 1 (3 votes)

"Not like it's gonna be anything we haven't already seen, of course; those who fail to learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them"

Is this why Furry is both a universal joke and the target of unending revulsion?

Your rating: None

If you can't put the comic in the site because it would hurt people's feelings, please email me a copy at Tibiera_Riverwolf@yahoo.com and I can have more of a right to gripe having done more research.

Your rating: None Average: 4 (1 vote)

---

...they aren't going to print anything negative.

---

You keep thinking that.

If that is the excuse you want to use to cover up your own laziness, that is fine by me. But not even trying means you forfeit any right to kvetch about what gets printed here and what does not. I would put a lot more stock in your rantings if you said "I submitted a different review (one that liked this comic) to Aureth and he never ran it," but you have already admitted you would rather sit and troll and pretend to have a legitimate gripe than actually act on it.

I do not see where you get that Flayrah is a furry "booster" site. Articles have run here before that certainly did not "boost" but were highly critical (The Yerf article comes to mind) of furry-related items. Flayrah is a site that carries news of interest to furries (and sci-fi/fantasy genre), good or bad, negative or positive. You, my friend, seem to be confusing "interest" and "boosting."

Your rating: None Average: 3 (2 votes)

Anonymous wrote:Is this why Furry is both a universal joke and the target of unending revulsion?The question you're asking cannot be answered because it relies on incorrect assumptions.Feel free to reply when you're capable of making a valid point instead of posting "Have You Stopped Beating Your Wife Yet?" questions.--Karl Xydexx JorgensenAnthrofurry Infocenter

Your rating: None Average: 1 (2 votes)

Anonymous wrote:

>>Is this why Furry is both a universal joke and the target of unending revulsion?

Xyydex wrote:

>The question you're asking cannot be answered because it relies on incorrect assumptions.

>Feel free to reply when you're capable of making a valid point instead of posting "Have You Stopped Beating Your Wife Yet?" questions.

Coming in late to this, I gotta ask...

What the hell does either the above question or subsequent reply have to do with MU Press???

-Chuck Melville-

Your rating: None Average: 5 (1 vote)

What the hell does either the above question or subsequent reply have to do with MU Press???Hah! Ask me about my boycott of Mu Press.mu - /moo/ The correct answer to the classic trick question "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?". Assuming that you have no wife or you have never beaten your wife, the answer "yes" is wrong because it implies that you used to beat your wife and then stopped, but "no" is worse because it suggests that you have one and are still beating her. According to various Discordians and Douglas Hofstadter the correct answer is usually "mu", a Japanese word alleged to mean "Your question cannot be answered because it depends on incorrect assumptions". Hackers tend to be sensitive to logical inadequacies in language, and many have adopted this suggestion with enthusiasm. The word `mu' is actually from Chinese, meaning `nothing'; it is used in mainstream Japanese in that sense, but native speakers do not recognize the Discordian question-denying use. It almost certainly derives from overgeneralization of the answer in the following well-known Rinzei Zen teaching riddle:A monk asked Joshu, "Does a dog have the Buddha nature?" Joshu retorted, "Mu!"Source: The Jargon File, 3.2.0

Your rating: None

That's what hapens when one is exposed to the underside of the fandom for too long. It's sad that all too often it's the vulgar minority that shapes the image of a group of people.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (2 votes)

He had personal attacks on Teresa Warner, Mitch Beiro, Jimmy Chin, Bob Guthrie and others. Why? Why did he need to lash out at folks who had nothing bad to say about HIM? Some of these even thought he was a friend. Sad.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (3 votes)

>He had personal attacks on Teresa Warner, Mitch Beiro, Jimmy Chin, Bob Guthrie and

>others.

Lance Rund and ASB,Nunemacher (sp?),Jim Groat,Herby (sp?) Bear Claw,Lex Nakashima (sp?),Yappy Fox,The Funday Puppet Show,Bryan Reynolds,Lisa Jennings,Ken Sample,Cataroo (sp?),ect,ect.

This not an expose on furries,this is a graphic diatribe based on Keller's personal "enemies list".Tracy Wagner is the main target on this book,and knowing Tracy personally,Keller's comments about her are completly uncalled for lies.

The question that really pops in my mind is "really, why?".

Your rating: None Average: 1 (2 votes)

Yup, that's it. Blame the messenger. Better than confronting the fact that there are actual unsavory elements inside the furry fandom.

Your rating: None Average: 3.5 (2 votes)

You call it a message? And if I walk into a bar and preach about alchoholism, it's wrong for people to beat the shit out of me? No. It's not wrong. I shouldn't have been such an ignoramus for doing it in the first place. Listen. Some messages should not be told because all it does is piss people off. The last "messenger" from the Jahova's Witness kingdom hall that came to my door was verbaly humiliated for agreeing to tell so many people that they are stupid for having an opinion other than theirs. It's like he sprayed us with pig shit. Do you honesly think we're not going to throw some back? If we are as he says we are, Keller should expect to be blamed. This is Dogface D(y)m.

Your rating: None Average: 1.3 (4 votes)

Furries love to blame the messenger rather than confront the issues. Until they do otherwise, it'll continue to get worse. Vanity Fair, the ER episode, and Keller's satire site/comic book are just the beginning.

Sadly, Flayrah lives up to its biased editorializing by using yellow journalism to demonize Keller as Another Bad Guy without having the chuptzah to contact him for his side of the story.

Unusually Good Information, my ass.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (3 votes)

You seem to be saying that no one can believe Keller's book is excessive and believe that there are "unsavory elements" in furry fandom. This is stuff and nonsense.

I haven't seen Keller's book and I probably won't, but I do remember "Skunk." It wasn't as bad as people say--some of it was funny, if pointed--but when it veered into personal attacks, one couldn't help but wonder about the personal agenda of the artist.

Furthermore, out of all the "unsavory elements" in furry fandom there are, targeting people like Jimmy Chin, John Nunnemacher, and Herbie Bearclaw is... inexplicable. Jimmy and Herbie are fine cartoonists, and their 'fursuit' activities are the antithesis of what Keller describes--these are people who devote their time and money to charity, particularly Herbie and his involvement with "Give Kids the World," a program for terminally-ill children. Yes, he entertains the children dressed up in a fursuit sometimes. Gasp. The horror. And as for John, while he hasn't been active in furry art for a while, he's the closest furry fandom has to a Scott McCloud--not only a good artist but a thoughtful and literate writer.

Some of the stuff on furryfans.com was amusing, I grant, although a lot of it was pretty flat. (Keller is a fine artist, but, well, he is not a thoughtful and literate writer, nor even a particularly witty one.) Hearing about this book disappoints me, though.

This isn't a matter of "killing the messenger," folks--this is a message we've heard before, and it seems the self-appointed messengers are the ones who are clueless. There is no Sherriff of Furry Fandom to run the Bad Folks out of Town, and the only thing the sane folks can do is say, "Hey, we're not with them." We're doing it. We've been doing it for years. (And we have to be willing to say "and we are furry fans--your perception that all fans are like the wackos is wrong.")

But spitting bile at people doesn't convey much of a message. You don't convince people of your way of thinking by screaming at them. And if you tar specific, undeserving people with your venom--which it seems Keller did--you deserve to have your venom thrown back at you.

- Watts Martin

Your rating: None Average: 5 (2 votes)

>Yup, that's it. Blame the messenger. Better than confronting the fact that >there are actual unsavory elements inside the furry fandom.

Since when is Lex Nakashima an "unsavory element inside fandom"?

Yes, there are unsavory elements EVERYWHERE. Compared to the last Klingon party I saw at a large regional science fiction con, furry fans are pretty darn tame in the "unsavory" department.

I haven't seen Shawn's comic yet, so I will refrain from commenting on it. I found the web site mildly amusing, though not very original. I happened to think "Skunk" was hilarious, though in a couple of places slightly mean-spirited. And I said as much to Edd Vick, the publisher, while I was asking him if I could buy a case for posterity.

Your rating: None Average: 4 (1 vote)

Remarkably tough words from an anonymous coward.

-Feren
"We use them for divine retribution."

Your rating: None

Hi Shawn, so exactly why did you write this?

Your rating: None Average: 2.5 (2 votes)

I publish what I'm sent. You don't see me going around wantonly deleting all these lovely anonymous cowards who disagree with the review, do you?

If anything, I'm probably going to buy the book at AC, if I can find it, just to see what the big deal is all about. I like satire. I think the website is hilarious. I'd be more than happy to get Shawn's side of the story, but I don't have any contact information for him, nor any idea where to look at the moment.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (1 vote)

>Sadly, Flayrah lives up to its biased editorializing by using yellow >journalism to demonize Keller as Another Bad Guy without having the

>chuptzah to contact him for his side of the story.

>Unusually Good Information, my ass.

Hi, Peter.

Your rating: None

Oh, I'd get his contact info from his webpage, of course. Duh. I'll look into this after Anthrocon.

Your rating: None

It takes one to know one, you anonymous coward. :P

Your rating: None Average: 5 (1 vote)

In the interests of accuracy, this poster is not actually Peter, but a guy by the name of Dar Thornton.

Hey Dar...Flayrah.com software logs IP addresses. Just thought you might want to know.

Your rating: None

Okay, waitaminnit here. The 'anonymous coward' statement was not sent anonymously. It was posted quite openly by Feren. Bitter, cynical, bitchkitty extraordinaire Feren.

Or maybe you weren't paying attention, Mr. Anonymous?

-Jen Wolf_Sister-

Who is in favor of the idea that if you don't like the bad press you're getting, go out there and make some good press for yourself. Mudslinging and namecalling won't get you anywhere.

Your rating: None

Is this how you normally react to criticism?

Your rating: None Average: 5 (1 vote)

Nope, mudslinging and namecalling gets us nowhere, but it sure helps some folks let out their repressed inner frustrations. :)

But seriously... Jen brings up a great point here. If we want positive attention, we as a group need to go MAKE good press for ourselves. I know a small band of fursuiters out in California have gotten some very good press now and then by doing charity visits to children's hospitals, the zoo, things like that. It doesn't take much to cast a good light on yourself or your peers -- you just have to make the effort.

-Feren
"We use them for divine retribution."

Your rating: None

Okay, if it really is that offensive...is anybody suing him for slander? Class-action suit in progress? Anything?

A lawsuit would force him to prove that it is indeed intended to be satire and not hate literature. But of course that would require someone to sue him.

Anyone gonna step up?

--Zhora

Your rating: None

well i went to look at the site - at least the (cheshire) cat was funny - i've always thought the bashing of anything aside from the romantacising and rewarding of aggressiveness rather gratuitous to begin with - it's a free net (don't i wish) but i doubt very much i'll be buying his book - (in this lifetime or any other ... ~;) - you know as extreme as it is crudeness wise - it almost seems a satire of itself and of the bashing of furryness or anything else ... (or IS that what it's intended to be ????? ... ~;)

stay well and keep doing the wonderful things that you do ... ~;)

Your rating: None

"Ahem," comes a new voice. "If I may?" Fully realizing that narrating in a forum such as this is ridiculous, the otter nonetheless follows his M.O. "I would like to interject some common sense into this for all the good it will do."

"Okay, first to address Zhora's point. How many furries have the cash to fund a lawsuit? You do know you can be charged around $100 for a ten minute conversation with a lawyer, right? Even if you represent yourself, there's a good chance you'll have to travel to whatever state the defendent is in for the case. Lastly, just because a jibe doesn't ruin someone's life doesn't mean it isn't hurtful. Sure we're all grown ups here and most of us can deal with it, but why should we have to?

"That brings me to my second point which has nothing to do with Zhora. In my opinion, if the book is anything like the website, I don't see a reason to waste money on it. If you find that sort of thing amusing, have at it, but I'll pass, thank you very much. This isn't criticism. It isn't even very good satire. If I wish to see something like that, I'll watch Jerry Springer. Its a shame to see talent like his wasted on such utter dreck. Again, this opinion is based off of two quotes and a website, but unless by some miracle these represent content far below the standard of the rest of the book, I would not be interested in the book.

"People, the plushophiles, lifestylers, and other unusual members of the furry world are almost universally harmless in their interests. Leave them alone. There is nothing to expose. They aren't sullying anybody's image. In case you hadn't noticed, there are people who will ferret out other people's dirty laundry to show it to the world, and there are still other people who will point to it and automatically associate it with some group or other. Have we forgotten the lesson of the D&D roleplaying game back in the 80's? What about the supposed link between violent video games and violent youth?

"Witch-hunts aren't going to help. Everyone that wants to cast the harmless sexual deviants and other supposed social embarrassments out of furrydom, you can go back to Salem where your outdated philosophies belong. On the other paw, if you are tired of furs hurting other furs and just want a place where you can chat with other people without worrying about being consumed by flames, why not drop on by the UniFURsal email list? The webpage

http://www.solfire.com/~unifursal/

contains a link to sign up. Yeah, its a shameless plug, but its also a genuine offer, so come on over." Finished with his speech, the otter pauses to don a Nomex suit on the off chance that someone will bother to respond with a scathing comment or two.

Your rating: None

I've got my copy on order; I'm looking forward to getting it.

Until I actually get it and read it, I have to go with the opinion that most of the horrified reaction does tend to be more of the "oh, they gored my sacred cow" variety. So far, it doesn't really sound like anything worse than just another 'Skunk', so I'm taking it in that vein. Does the fandom good to see how it is seen through other eyes.

Your rating: None Average: 4 (1 vote)

I have to agree with the anonymous poster on this. I've taken a look at the website (Yet to see the book that's causing such an uproar) and frankly I think it's a hoot. Especially the interactive area where you can "torture" the fanboy with soap (It's cliche, but I do find a percentage of the fandom to be rather...ripe).

Every time something that makes light of the fandom comes out (Daily Report, the "appearance" in E.R., etc) various folk in the fandom get all riled up. "How dare they make fun of us!" "We're not really like that!" "Sue! Sue!" The cries go up and everyone starts pointing fingers... and thinking they have the answer. You'd think it's the end of the world that we were parodied or referenced or even HINTED at. Talk about sensitive toes and burning ears, this fandom must be full of them!

Folks, it's satire. Every fan community, be it Star Trek, Xena, Furry, Babylon 5, you name it... everyone gets zinged now and again (Heck, my employer has been zinged numerous times... on 'The Simpsons,' by ManCow (A Chicago radio personality), by a local sports station. We don't get riled up about it, we think it's funny). It isn't the end of the world, and this little niche we call "furry" is not, as the above poster put it, a "sacred cow" that can't be poked fun at now and again. We, as a fandom, have foibles and stereotypes that are funny to people that aren't in the fandom. Hell, they're funny to people who are in the fandom.

If you can't take a little humor being made of you, find another hobby because you're taking this way too seriously. Gauging by some of the reactions here, I have to say that some of the fandom's members obviously never had a whopee cushion put under their butts in grade school, else they'd have learned how to laugh at themselves once in a while.

-Feren
"We use them for divine retribution."

Your rating: None

Where are you ordering it from? I'd like to get a copy to peruse. If I don't like it I can always ritually set fire to it or something, like I did with some of my more hated college textbooks. (j/k)

Your rating: None
Your rating: None

Shaking his head the otter returns. "I won't try to argue that there isn't a 'sacred cow' element to this situation, *but* the tendency to react aggressively to any negative press for Furrydom is based on quite reasonable fears. Considering that the furry fandom contains at least one of every major kink and most if not all obscure fetishes and sexual deviations, someone living in a town full of Southern Baptists would not want furry portrayed as being comprised primarily of these people, not to mention the 'What will the parents think?' factor. What, did you think the Burned Furs were a volunteer fire fighting group? As much as I don't approve of their attempt to exclude the socially embarrassing segment from furrydom, this fear is a key element of what drives them.

"Trekkies, sci-fi and fantasy fans, otaku, members of the SCA, and renfair participants are for the most part viewed by society as harmless geeks and eccentrics. For those people that are aware of sexual deviants within these groups, they don't make the mistake of believing that these people are representative of the rest of the group nor that sexual deviation is a part of the fandom. This can not be said of furrydom, and there is a very good reason for that. a) Furrydom is new and unknown, and most people fear the unknown. b) Like it or not, the furry fandom has an unusually large gay and bi contingent. These two elements are not a good combination since homo and bisexuality are still not widely accepted, so adding in even hints of more unusual sexual acts is going to stir people up. Are people overreacting to this? I'm reasonably certain some of them are, but I also know enough furs that have been on the wrong side of mistaken beliefs about furrydom before and don't want to go through with it again.

"As far as humor is concerned, I found the website to be for the most part disgusting. It was basically Beavis and Butthead quality humor, and I was never able to stomach watching more than maybe ten minutes of that. Again, if you enjoy that, fine, to each his own, but don't insult true humorists by calling that satire. The two Amy the Squirrel pieces were slightly amusing, but those were the only relative high points. Besides, its easy to tell other people that they should have a sense of humor about this sort of thing. Are any of you people plushophiles or fursuit fetishists? If not, yeah, its easy enough to distance yourself mentally and say, 'Hah hah, I'm glad I'm not like those pathetic losers.' This is not laughing at yourself. Laughing at yourself is saying, 'Heh heh, yeah, I guess I must look really silly doing that.' Come on, show of paws here people, who did or ever would enjoy being *personally* represented by men that were either grotesquely fat and flatulent or anorexically skinny and in general unattractive?" Kree raises an eyebrow as he gives everyone a measured look.

Your rating: None

On a couple topics in this thread:

* A lawsuit is totally inappropriate. First of all, you'd have to prove that Shawn damaged the livelihood of one of the targets, and that said damage was his intention, AND that the material is false. Either of the first two is difficult in this case. Now, if he'd sent the comics to the workplace of one of the people with a note to the boss saying "hey, check out what your employee is doing," then you might have a case.

* Second: yes, people need to be able to laugh at themselves. But the way in which it's presented (yes, I have seen the book) is very mean-spirited in some cases. Imagine (as an example) that you like to collect plushies. Whether you do more with them or not, you keep to yourself, but some friends have suspicions. Suddenly, this comic book appears with a rather unmistakable caricature of you in flagrante delicto with a plushie. How would you feel about that if you were a plushophile? How would you feel if you weren't? And more importantly, why is it anyone else's business?

That's part of my big problem with this book: the personal attacks. They are really unmistakable, no matter how much the artist protests (cf. his protest that the "Mitch Beiro"-looking guy on furryfans.com is actually not supposed to be Mitch). And for the most part, as has been pointed out here, these are not the most extreme examples of the behavior in the fandom. I'm sure you can all think of three or four people whose behavior annoys or outrages you more than the people targeted in this comic. The impression I'm left with from looking at it is that it is not satire aimed at the fandom as a whole, but a series of ad hominem attacks on people the artist knows.

The other problem I have with it is that it doesn't appear to have any sort of constructive point. Shawn doesn't appear to be saying "look what neat things these people could be doing with furry fandom"; he's saying "these people are complete wastes of time." My question is: what's the point of this book? To make fun of furry fans? Gee, there's a challenge. Shawn is a very talented artist, so why, if the fandom bugs him so much, is he still a part of it? Why not just take his talents and do something cool with them (he is apparently planning to do a comic with a story, but who knows what reception it'll get now)? Why put so much time and effort into telling people how stupid and worthless he thinks they are?

Sure, that's his right. But it's also my right to sit here and say that one of the things I really dislike in this world is the tendency of some people to put WAY too much effort into telling other people what they're doing wrong with their lives. Physician, heal thyself. Make fun of the people among your circle of friends if you must, and LET IT GO. If someone close to you is screwing up his or her life, confront them personally. If it's someone not close to you, just move on.

And with that, I think I'll take my own advice and move on. I've wasted too much time writing this as it is.

But at least I didn't make it into a comic.

Your rating: None Average: 1.5 (2 votes)

I think the comic serves as a valuable lesson as how the fandom is percieved. Oh how I wish sometimes for a good ol "pitchforks & Torches" movement by the public upon the fandom. This fandom is a lint-trap for human debris. The fct that it attracts deviants, more than Anime fandom is becuse of intent by organizers.

Your rating: None Average: 4.3 (3 votes)

What will the parents think?Good question! I think I can answer that one, since my Mom went to AnthroCon this year, and I was curious what she thought about it all.Do you know what she told me?SHE HAD A GREAT TIME AND IS LOOKING FORWARD TO RETURNING NEXT YEAR.

Your rating: None

The otter blatantly laughs in the face of the anonymous schmuck. "Oh come now, do you really think you can bait me *that* easily?"

Your rating: None Average: 2 (1 vote)

Hi, Random. ;)

It's probably true, though, that Mark Merlino did a lot to attract deviants of all stripes into the fandom, in the name of growing it as quickly as possible.

Your rating: None

Who's trying? You answered...

Your rating: None Average: 4 (2 votes)

Okay, I wasn't going to say anything about this because it really didn't interest me, but I was so stunned by the amount of commentary devoted to this news article that I had to say something. I'd love it if someone could explain to me why, when I'm posting articles about sea turtles being illegally hunted and endangered animals in trouble, about science fiction greats and fabulous artists, why what gets the commentary is some random guy spouting off his probably meaningless opinions about what a small subset of people interested in anthropomorphics are like?

I mean, come on. Why can't we get some of this level of enthusiasm about animals? Or science fiction? Or space news? That's more interesting, isn't it? :P

--Micah

Your rating: None Average: 1 (1 vote)

I'm sure that the sea turtles are in danger and may die off some day. hmmmm, that reminds me of something else. Oh yeah! Every other spicies on the earth! Everything dies believe it or not. Do you really think I keep my dog on life support to avoid it's death? No! She's dead, and you can blame that on nature. I think they want to die. You know why? So that they can leave this world controled by idiots that pretend to care only because caring sells. They will laugh at us from their animal heven and talk about how brainless we are in the same bitter fassion that we do to eachother. We laugh at our pets when they're mimicing us, right? What kind of a hysteria do you think they have when they think of us? I think they want to die so they may make fun of us in the afterlife. I would hate to hear the things they say though because I'm having so much trouble dealing with humans alone.

I said this is a joke, but on a more serious note, the eco system really is in trouble if we don't do something. All I think I can do is send money to a wild life care fund. If there's something more I can do, please tell me. This is Dogface D(y)m.

Your rating: None Average: 3 (1 vote)

This place is sort of like the "world news for wombats" sketch.

"Today an airplane crashed in Texas, killing 350 people. No furries were injured. Now for a three-hour debate on the topic, 'Is Meeko still king of the plushies?'"

Flayrah: News For Furs, Stuff That Doesn't Matter.

Your rating: None Average: 4 (1 vote)

It's a common phenomenon and has nothing to do with fandom, furry fandom, or Flayrah.

I experienced the same thing on all the student newspapers where I was a staff or editorial member, on the professional newspaper where I interned, on the smaller professional paper where I was a staff member, and on all five fanzines with which I have been editorially involved.

Response and commentary is almost exclusively limited to complaints and corrections. And the most activity is usually generated by some heated argument that several cranks will get into with each other, rather than actually discussing anything you published. About once every third publication cycle you'll actually receive a "Good job" note.

--Gene

Your rating: None

I usually keep my muzzle shut unless I see a problem, or have something constructive to add to the discussion. I didn't comment on the turtle thread because, be honest, other than saying "Yeah, save the toitles!" what could I offer?

Your rating: None Average: 3 (1 vote)

*shrug* I'm still trying to figure out how posting a review of a book turns me into a 'yellow journalist'. By their very natures, reviews are meant to express opinions that not everyone will agree with...often not even me.

It's like the car wreck I passed, today. There was a two mile traffic backup simply because everyone had to slow down and look. It's why the news is filled with stories of the latest shootings, rather than the winner of the local grade school spelling bee. It's human nature.

I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.

Your rating: None Average: 2 (1 vote)

Kree leans back casually against a door frame as he comments, "Well...I only just wandered onto the Flayrah site from the Belfry the other day, and I only peeked at this article on a whim. When I read through the review and the comments about it, I decided to insert my own thoughts and feelings. Why? Partly for the same reasons anyone gives their opinion and partly for the challenge of presenting a dissenting opinion with something at least vaguely resembling tact. That's not easy when your opponents are all booger brains." ;) "Just kidding folks, only *some* of my opponents are booger brains." ;D "Sorry, silly mood overtaking me...too much seriousness for one night. Gotta go." With that the otter scurries off to read his daily quota of online comics.

Your rating: None Average: 1 (2 votes)

Welcome to the Furry hardcore! A group of fetishists and deviants are there because their insucurities and damage prevent them from from being accepted anywhere else. Of course they are going to be most concerned with defending their small patch of turf, rather than the greater world outside that despises them.

Your rating: None

May I make the suggestion that Anonymous posting be disabled? The way I see it is, if one can't put a name up with what they say, then their mouths are best left for chewing.

I understand your desire to make things more open to the community at large, but I see it being abused now. It takes but a moment to register so nobody is being silenced (except for people who don't have the courage to associate themselves with what they say.)

Reality is not only stranger than we think, it's stranger than we CAN think!

Your rating: None

Trouble is, anyone can register themselves as, say, Pissed_Off_Furry and post away - there's really not much benefit to requiring registration except maybe driving off the cranks who don't want to take the time to register.

For what it's worth, though, you'd be surprised how little anonymity really is afforded when posting here.

-Duncan

Your rating: None

I don't see much abuse going on. It'd be abuse if someone were, say, clogging things up by posting 300 messages all with the word 'foo' as the subject. I see a lot of people who disagree with each other, but that's not the same thing as abuse.

Personally, I don't register because I see no need to hand over my email address to yet another website. I get enough spam as it is. ;)

Your rating: None Average: 1 (3 votes)

I see, reacting to criticism with censorship? Way to go Pol Pot.

Your rating: None Average: 1 (2 votes)

Thank you. :)

No abuse

No spam

It's looking fine.

Long live Flayrah!

Your rating: None Average: 2 (1 vote)

(To the theme from Raw Hide)

Trollin', trollin', trollin'

Keep those insults rollin'

Thinks he's goin' trollin'

Flameeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrr!

-Feren
"We use them for divine retribution."

Your rating: None Average: 3 (1 vote)

Besides, if you look farther up you'll see that Aureth's method of dealing with people who post stuff he doesn't like is to dig their IP out of the logs and tell everyone who they are.

To me that's fighting dirty, but hey, it's not my site.

Your rating: None Average: 4 (1 vote)

>To me that's fighting dirty, but hey, it's not my site.

There's a time when I would have agreed. That was before I had been a victim of anonymous death threats and other fun things, in addition to seeing people dragged into legal trouble over false, anonymously submitted information.

Personally, I would have never set the system up to allow anonymous posting, just as I refuse to print anonymous letters in my magazine's letters column.

The nature of the criticism that was in the aforementioned anonymous posting called into question the motives of the Flayrah staff for allowing the commentary to be printed. Under a principle that is at least as old as the Talmud, when someone makes such an accusation, they open themselves up to similar examination. In other words, their possible motives for making the accusation are at least as important as the accusation itself.

The only way the readers can evaluate that motive, is to know who they are.

:)

Your rating: None

No one's life is being threatened here, and when it's the quality and motives of a site that are being questioned people are free to check up on that by reading the rest of the site. Posting the author's name was just petty revenge in this case, I suspect.

Your rating: None

Does anyone know where to find a copy of this particular Book, as mentioned on the review, or even if it is still available?.

Any information will be appreciated... =)

Bob "Yes, i know already, Thanks,... <=)" Guthrie

Your rating: None Average: 5 (1 vote)

Try http://www.robertagregory.com/otherwks/licentio.htm

Or, you can get all three issues together:

http://www.sonic.net/~comix/ptext/59.htm

And worthy of note (since it came up in a Google search), you can even read these for free (in person only, not on line) at Michigan State's Library Reading Room as part of their Comic Art Collection.

-Duncan, who's not getting by East Lansing any time soon, unfortunately

Your rating: None

Thank you for the info. =)

BMG

Your rating: None Average: 2.5 (2 votes)

The parent post of this story started with a tale... My opinion will start with another one...

"One day, the King of the Forest, tired of the massive predation of the last months, he called all the animals of the forest to a meeting.

In the left side, he had the wolves, the bears, the eagles...

In the right side, he had the sheeps and the deers.

Talking to them all, the King said: "I'm tired of you hunting and killing your brother animals!"

As soon as he has said it, the left side of the audience broke in yells, howls and insults to the King, questioning how He dared to acusse them of an act He didn't have proof of.

In the right side, the side of the sheeps and the deers, they simply stood quiet wondering what the King was talking about."

My point is: Aren't you making so much noise because you know that Shawn is right?

I pretend to understand all the sides of this story, so you'll have to excuse me if I act a bit as Shawn's advocate. I would need to read more of that comicbook to make a more accurate judge, but the site www.furryfans.com was pretty close to what I have seen. I have been in a couple furry conventions (one in Europe, another in USA) and what was shown to me in there was pretty less than dantesque... These are a couple things I saw during my visits:

- Seeing a guy in the hotel's garden walking on his four, smelling a tree, then zipping down his fly and peeing, still on his four, at the tree.

- Getting my ass and crotch groped by a "security guard" wearing ferret plush gloves at the exit of the art show, checking "if I had stolen anything".

- A guy in a Dalmatian costume, where you could easily "notice" his balls and ***** thru the trousers' fabric.

- Lots of publishers who checked my art that assumed, because I'm artist, male and homosexual, I'd be more than happy to draw porn art for their publications.

I think I have read a post in this topic that the furry fandom is not about sex. That may be true (in your imagination, bro!), but a friend of mine who went to a convention to sell her furry art production, was eventually ignored, and even told off by a few buyers, because all of her drawings were *clean* art. Or check www.furbid.ws at any time... The proportion of people that aunctions clean art is ridiculous compared to the people that makes adult art.

I guess that Shawn Keller has gone thru something similar, and he got burned up. Looking at his work, I have to say that his characters are pretty sexy. He possibly got lots of adult art requests, and making porn gets frustrating over time, as eventually you get this feeling that you are doing the same drawing in the same pose again and again. Besides the comments you usually get doing these jobs: People seems not to care a shit about the execution and quality of the job, as long as you have put a big dick on it. And I assure you that it pisses you off... Or even, when you draw a clean picture, getting comments from the people who has seen your adult stuff like, "It would be better if you could see his *****". I have a lot of experience in such terms, and I can assure that it can make your mind "snap".

About the comicbook and site, I have to say that I laughed my ass off. It's too easy to see things that, as furry fans, we have seen, been or done as part of the furry fandom. And you (that means *you*) can't deny that you haven't ever done of wished to do any of the things described in it, even if it's just for following the mainstream. I can't deny it myself: I'm a 22 years old male homosexual guy, overly fat and not exactly what you would call attractive, unless you take off my glasses, uncut beard and a few pounds outta my face. I draw furry stuff, and my life dream is to break into the furry fandom with a good furry comicbook worth reading. I have been in one of those "cabarets" in ConFurence and, in a moment of ecstacy, I paid around $50 to a really sexy dancer on stage for allowing me touching his purrfect chest. I can't help myself buying like a zombie every game that features anthropomorphic characters and abusing of the "Pause" button right after to "check" the furry characters with a box of Kleenex by my side. I have a real-size anthropomorphic tiger plush in militar clothes that I sewed myself based on one of my characters and I sleep with him every night (and I tend to buy new clothes to him once every two months due to the stains of my "implanted genetic code"). I have masturbated with several Disney movies, like Robin Hood, The Lion King, The Jungle Book and Tarzan. I have had fantasies implying zoophilia.

It's been said that this Shawn Keller is being hypocritical. But what about us? Everytime that someone says we are weird, or that we are freaks, we get indignant about it and yell that we aren't. Shawn Keller may be a little radical showing what's going on in our fandom, but he is just telling the raw truth, but we try to deny it because we are still *ASHAMED* of these things we do.

Some philosophist said once that "Freedom consist on doing whatever you want as long as you don't hurt anyone with your actions". I have accepted that I'm weird and that I'm a freak. But I also know that I'm not hurting anyone with my attitude. If I ever practice zoophilia someday, I will only do it with the animal's consent, as I wouldn't dare to hurt an animal just for my own pleasure. I try my best to keep this activity away from children's eyes or from people that gets offended with this kind of weird stuff because, the same way I claim my right to do the things I do when I want, I also claim for the rights of children to grow happily and without traumas, and the right of easily-offended people to keep their moral or ethical system safe and untouched. Following this little rule, I'm free, and for this, doesn't matter how weird is what I get to do with my life, I have nothing to be ashamed of.

That's been my two cents. Hope that I made you think a little.

Your rating: None

This will take a while to read, you might want to prepare to read. Where am I going to start? I realize that these discusting things happen, and I furthermore realize that they are done by discusting people. (Being a "discusting" person myself, you'll find I don't use the term often) My local group of people that consider ourselves furry and I are ashamed by our fellow furs making their private lives public when the public never asked or wanted that at all.

I know that what kelly says is the honest to God truth, but the truth comes across to me as an insult to furs and feul for fur haters. I think we have enough problems with the haters without a fur helping them.

I as well as you though am sick of dick brains in the fandom. I don't draw(and sometimes glad that I can't), but I think it's sad when a talented artist must resort to adding pulsating male organs to their best G rated pictures to get attention. The way I know about that is my brother and close friend that must put up with requests for porn. These furs are like locusts that feed on the type of milk the cow can't give. They move on and its utters remain untapped and in pain from neglect. As you can see, I'm angry at the spooge hungry fans that have no interest in family friendly matterial. I'm very glad that I'm a writer. I find that furries would sooner stare at yiff than read. I guess that's a filter for the spooge junkies.

Our idea of freedom matches the one you've expressed. When I say "our", I mean my local group. My problem with zooaphilia is that it's nearly imposable to have consentual sex with an animal. I mean, it doesn't just say it's ok. Then again, ot may just be me. I don't even want to make a move on my girlfriend for fear that she will think that sex is all I care about. I'll stick with plushaphilia. This is Dogface D(y)m.

Your rating: None

This is going to be kinda long...

Welcome to FA, Furry Anonymous, where we spill our beens and hope to get through life. Face it, there are too few clean furs nowadays and that is because people in general are sick in the mind. We have things like religion to keep our horomones in check. Yet, we are human. We have urges. Eventually there will be those who forget about decency to enjoy themselves, or to lash out against whomever, or to simply be different.

Does this make it right? Not by a long shot. I admit, even though I am a young fur I have been looking and enjoying things that one would consider gross. I am not proud of myself. I downright hate myself for being dragged into this and I am not afraid to say that I need help getting out of it. Writting is one of my releases (sorry folks, only been using pen and paper lately) and so far I have yet to write anything spoogey.

One of my small triumphs, but it does not cover for the things I do. Anybody in the fur community who says they never even thought of going to yiffy sites is one bad liar. We lie to everybody else and to ourselves because we simply do not want to face the truth. We are the misfits, we do not fit in the mainstream, and as you can tell the mainstream just LOVES us. It is not a bad thing to tread on the path less taken, as long as you do it in a sane way. Looking around at everybody bickering among themselves, I find that they all agree on the same thing: The media is at fault. Nice theory and all, but the last time I saw anybody try and do anything about it was (gasp!) Burned Fur!

I read the Burned Fur Manifesto a couple times by now. First time was when the site was still up. I completely agreed with everything said in the document. Over time, though, I was caught up in the anti-burned fur feeling and completely forgot why I liked it in the first place. I was hearing all this stuff about Burned Fur being oppressive and ignorant. Eventually I found a site which still had the BF Manifesto still on it. Second time I read it was an eye-opener. All the things I was expecting to see, and all the things I wanted to hate were NOT ON THE DOCUMENT! That is when I realized that there was HUMAN ERROR in this whole thing. They were just in the original idea, but were complete morons and assholes to not stick with the orignal plan.

Original plan was, cure the disease. Plan B, separate the corrupt from the clean. Yes, they were going to split the community. We all go *gasp* no! don't do that! here is the reality folks, by splitting the corrupt from the clean, you are literally seperating the fetish appeal from the fandom. You want to go all spoogey and stuff? then stop saying you are a true fur fan and just admit YOU ARE ADDICTED TO PORNO! Just because YOU have a problem does not mean you need to enforce it on those who don't!

There is this one guy that says: "And Hey! Guess what?! The only way YOU'RE going to change anything is if you kill every zoophile, plushophile, lifestyler, vegan, lycanthrope, person with a totem or sprit animal, adult furry artist,fur that wishes they were an animal, every "insane" furry (in your opinion, everyone that isnt a BF), and furvert. And what will that leave the fandom with? Nearly nothing but the fans, and that aint much!"

This comes from a person who thinks that BF is a BAD thing. Look at what he said and tell me that this cannot swing both ways. If we get rid of everything that being a furry stands for nowadays, we will be left with those who still know what it was originally for.

Not to say that the so-called clean furs are all happy-go-lucky. The BF's were so adamant in their opinion that they tied to enforce their opinion on everybody else, which is why it did not work. Now if they stuck to plan B and tried to simply make compromises with their opponents, there wouldn't have been a war. It is time that we admit that the fur community has degraded so much that we have lost sight of the original purpose. There are only the few who do enough research to realise that this is all simply a spin-off of Sci-fi creatures. That is what they are.

Non-aligned furs, sorry to say, is a sign that people are giving up. It is a sign that they do not care enough to fix the problem. You cannot end all the problems within the community, nor can you ignore them. There is no middle ground in this game, folks. One has to understand that the community was destined to be split apart or to crumble on its own corrutpion.

I am pissed off at everybody right now who is sitting there are not giving a damn. You know what is happening to me? I have to wait until I am eighteen until I can fully enjoy being a fur. EIGHTEEN! Okay, so in order to be a full fledged fur I have to be old enough to smoke and have sex?! pardon my words but bullchit! (you know what i mean) I listen to the rest of you and all I am hearing is "when I was a youngster..." dude, I AM a youngster, and all of you are focking up my experiecne of being a fur. I hate you all for that.

Because I am an open fur, I have gotten ragged on by my family and my friends, as well as strangers. I don't doubt that many of you went through or are going through the same thing. Why drag ME down because of YOUR issues? I don't even know you and yet you are dragging me down! I have my OWN issues and I keep them to myself. Parading your issues about is the most idiotic thing and possibly one of the most dangerous things you can do. This is one of the few times I am willing to take that risk.

Well, people, I am not a non-aligned fur. I am not a BF or an Anti-BF. I am simply me, and if you want to classify me as anything, I would be a "to-be-Burned-Fur- Resurector."

Since you are all *****-happy go and cyber suck one. If you can get the real thing kudos for you. Just do the future generation a favor and clean up your act that way we are not as screwed up as you.

Blessed Be,
~Long Darku~

Your rating: None

I don't know what Shawn has against the fandom. If I want to wear a fur suit soaked in semen and cow droppings and not hurt anyone while "doing the nasty" with my plush huskie, who cares? It's not like I shove it in your face and malest you with this strange fedish. However, I do admit that he has a ralent for writing. Even though there are high school dropouts with beter knowlage of literature and writing (example: me). what I suggest to Shawn is to go to collage and plant your face in a book long enough to see that it's an alternitive lifestyle and accept it. This is Dogface, a proud furry, and if there's something wring with that, write it so you can be a motherfucking ass hole about it.

Your rating: None

read the second comment on the the thread above yours. I am sorry to say, that your careless, "don't blame me, I didn't do it!" attitude is a factor in what screws people like me over. The mass don't care if it is a alternative lifestyle or not, they just care that it is messed up to the point where they have a right to exploit it. Yes, you have a right to spooge all over your fursuit. The second the spooge lands outside the suit, though, all hell breaks loose. I do hope you know what I mean. Doesn't matter if you don't shove it in others faces, you are not preventing others from doing so, and they are screwing you over as well. Thank you so much for staying out of the way, so the REAL tail-holes can screw us over. Thanks for NOTHING.

Not part of the solution = part of the problem.

Maybe if you helped instead of lying back and not giving a shit about anybody but yourself in these matters, there will be less loathing between us. If we all lied back and did nothing, we would simply continue to degrade until yiffing dead goats is considered normal. Not something we want to know, but something we HAVE to acknowledge. Because of the "we don't care" attitude we now have people nowadays who believe the holocaust is simply a fairy tale to scare people. I doubt you want that to happen, but you simply sit there and watch as it does happen. hmmm, something seems a bit wrong about that.

I really am sorry to berate you, but unfortunately you are a fur, so it IS your problem.

~Long Darku~

Your rating: None

Wow, to much to read, not sure what all is
said, but I don't have that kind of time to
read everything, but from what I read so far
seem to be just a little flame war breaking
out about something that they arn't fully sure
what they are talking about.

I can see how the comic can offend many.
But if you look at everything just right,
everything can offend you. I for one think
it pretty funny. You don't take this stuff
serious? I see many funny inside joke within the fandom that many others won't
understand, but I don't think it was made
for others to view other then furs, after all
he was selling it at a furry convention. Him
self being a fursuiter and even a fur.

Assuming? That what many people do without
knowing they are doing it. Heck I may be
assuming right now.

If you sit down, read through it, don't worry
about what others would think about it,
don't take what it said to be referring to you,
but more as a joke. Think about it as "if your
a furry," like the "if you were a redneck" jokes
that seems to be popular by many rednecks?

Just look at political comics in the newspapers.
They arn't tell in the truth most of the time,
but making fun of things. I not sure
how many Clinton comic strips I seen that
were pretty funny that weren't true.

I don't know, maybe what I said was a waste,
but I felt like saying something.

Kepit kewl.

Your rating: None Average: 2 (1 vote)

What a numbskull. I honestly find it hard to believe people like this are allowed to exist. You'd think natural selection would've gotten rid of them by now, but... I suppose there will always be those who are uninformed, but this goes beyond simple ignorance. I'd like to meet this man, if only so I could try and talk to him about what it REALLY means to be a furry. What a fool this man is... If he thinks he's gonna get away with this unscathed, he's got another thing coming. He think's it's all sexual perversion? I challenge him to go look at Yerf.com, and then tell us how twisted we all are. Yeah, it's easy to attack someone from a book, especially when you know jacks*** about them. He's obviously got wonderful self esteem, he must feel very confident in his non-furriness. Sometimes I think guys like this are really closet Furries who are trying to prove they're not. But then, that's my theory... And I've been wrong many, many times before.

Your rating: None Average: 3 (1 vote)

can somebody say "denial?" He points out only one aspect of the fur community. True, it is not the true part of the community, but try telling that to the freaks. BTW, the number of messed up sites are neck-en-neck with the number of clean ones, if not more-than. Also, I find it funny how to get to the clean sites you actually have to sort through a lot of the the yiff sites. That is why places like Mongoose.net were made, to make it easier to sort through all the garbage. Hey, I'll admit, that is one of the few really good sites out there. As far as clean goes, though, possibly Yerf is one of the few sites that has everything an average clean fur would want:

1) FREE!!

2) EASY TO NAVIGATE!!

3) QUALITY!!

4) CLEAN PICTURES ONLY!!

5) MEMBERSHIP NOT REQUIRED!!

6) EASY TO FIND!!

How many sites have ALL of this unconditonally? thought so, not that many. So you see, as much as I like the whole concept, there simply is not enough. I would LOVE to be pointed in the direction of the one furry story site that is exactly like Yerf! and I have yet to find it. Maybe I am not searching in the right places, but what do I know? Just a shmuck with a cynical opinion.

Blessed Be,
~Long Darku~

Your rating: None Average: 1 (1 vote)

I just HAD to comment on this LEGENDARY article as well! Okay, I just did.

Your rating: None Average: 3 (2 votes)

11 years later and now this "biggest mistake" has now become a collectable and historic item in the furry fandom.

I'm lucky enough to have my copy of this still :P

Your rating: None

Ditto :)

Post new comment

  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <img> <b> <i> <s> <blockquote> <ul> <ol> <li> <table> <tr> <td> <th> <sub> <sup> <object> <embed> <h1> <h2> <h3> <h4> <h5> <h6> <dl> <dt> <dd> <param> <center> <strong> <q> <cite> <code> <em>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.

More information about formatting options

CAPTCHA
This test is to prevent automated spam submissions.

About the author

Aurethread storiescontact (login required)

an agronomist and Cornwuff from Northern Illinois, interested in sf, homebrewing, photography and running