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Insane Kangaroo announces "unofficial don't hug me bro murrsuit database"

Your rating: None Average: 2.3 (42 votes)

Pittsburgh fur Insane Kangaroo has launched "Do Not Hug" (NSFW), the "unofficial don't hug me bro murrsuit database". The database is intended to record those fursuits (or "murrsuits") used by their owners for both sexual activities and public appearances.

Insane Kangaroo justifies the database by declaring that:

[...] the general populous does not want to hug a cum-encrusted fursuit for many reasons, including the suit being a health risk.

Opponents of the database have pointed out that fursuits can be thoroughly washed and dried if they have been used in such a fashion, and should not be a health risk. Supporters have questioned whether some fursuit parts (such as the head) can be easily washed, and have expressed discomfort at the thought of hugging a "murrsuit" even if it had been previously cleaned.

No stranger to controversy, Insane Kangaroo has previously been banned from Anthrocon after openly carrying firearms on the streets of Pittsburgh, and was responsible for the temporary closure of mature image board e621.

Comments on this story are now closed, as they are no longer on topic.

Comments

Your rating: None Average: 3.1 (15 votes)

Oh man. Trollers gotta troll.
This guys new name is Princes CuddleFluff.

Your rating: None Average: 3 (5 votes)

They're just called trolls. Not trollers.

It was important, after 118 comments, that this be pointed out.

Your rating: None Average: 3.6 (13 votes)

I can sympathise with what he's trying to do. I'm not going to be cynical here, I think his motives do have good intentions as simple put some people are uncomfortable with hugging a fursuit that's been used for bedtime activity.

Your rating: None Average: 4 (13 votes)

Well, he's not my favorite fur, but I got to admit, I like his methodology.

It does bother me a bit that people have sex in their fursuits, then go out and post pictures of them in their fursuits hugging kids. I know that most people are good and will clean things up, but at the same time, I have to wonder why I can find pics of people who use their fursuits both for sexual pleasure and for "mundane relations." I guess for me, it's not so much the sex, or the non-cleaning, but the fact that I can find both sets of pictures on the net with relative ease.

It'd be like if I were a cop and had pictures of me in my cop uniform arresting someone , and then had the same cop uniform used in a porno. There would be questions. There should be questions.

I dunno. Just thinking outloud here.

Your rating: None Average: 3.1 (10 votes)

Why can you find pictures of people's characters having sex, and also see those characters depicted in non-sexual activities?

Just as some furs desire erotic artwork of their personal characters, some fursuiters want to have sex in their fursuit. Lifesylers in particular may consider their fursuit part of their identity, rather than a costume worn for performance purposes.

Your rating: None Average: 4.1 (13 votes)

I don't know the guy but he seems to try to bring a lot of negative controversy to himself. His 'gun carry' issue being one of the highest profile issues. I am a gun owner/carrier myself. But I can assure you that if I ever felt that furcons were dangerous to the point I had a feeling of need to carry a gun to one,I would simply not go. Granted I have one I keep in the truck with me, but I surely don't openly brandish/show it. There are venues where such open carry practices are warranted for certain, but a furcon is certainly not such a place. And in my opinion, if someone feels such insecurity and threat at a con,then they have obviously made a number of people mad at them and/or seeking attention. Seemingly 'IK' got attention with it, just not the sort he was seeking I believe.

Altho, in the circumstances of this ridding the furry fandom of the young/child-like porn issue, I am whole heartidly with him on it. That BS brings a lot of bad attention to us. And lord knows we get ehough bad attention as it is with the ignorants confusing furry with zoophilia. I am openly furry for the deliberate ideals that when I am approached about it, I clarify the fact that those 2 lifestyles are not one and the same.

Your rating: None Average: 4 (6 votes)

I suspect the idea of people having sex in fursuit would persist even if nobody was seen to be doing it.

To the carry issue: I understand a gun was not carried openly at the convention, just the surrounding streets.

Your rating: None Average: 3.2 (18 votes)

He's a complete idiot. Even the furs that do really stupid stuff in public are better than him.

While I certainly hope people wash their fursuits if they use them for yiff and take them out the list is useless because people can't tell who washes them and who doesn't. I'm pretty sure people also have sex in the same clothes they wear in public.

I also heard he's the one that reported Inkbunny, FA and Sofurry for 'child pornography'. Some of his intentions might be good but he really has no idea what he's doing and is just causing problems for everyone.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

Your rating: None Average: 3.2 (5 votes)

Actually he did do it to Inkbunny, but that only occurred after FA had already changed their AUP because of someone else. Reading back into it it had to do with believing that the other sites were doing it so he was 'leveling the playing field' or some such...

At least that's what I recall, alot has happened between now and then.

Your rating: None Average: 2.3 (3 votes)

The 'declaring that' link needs to be changed to - http://insane-kangaroo.livejournal.com/75422.html

Your rating: None Average: 2.3 (3 votes)

Oops, ignore my previous comment - saw the lj header as the post header ^.^;;;

Your rating: None Average: 4.6 (8 votes)

Seems like a good way to facilitate drama if someone can be listed without a clear, explicit photo (either currently, or some point in the future). The side effect of doing too good of a job of creating a stigma, is some people will try to abuse it to push their own personal take on things or otherwise make personal gains, even on petty stuff like some bit of drama.

Your rating: None Average: 3.5 (19 votes)

God, guys, this is not news, this is flaimbait! Do you really have to give this complete nutcase (who's banned from anthrocon for a good reason) even more attention? You're just pouring oil into the fire. What is this? lulz.net?

Your rating: None Average: 2.8 (12 votes)

This. This so much.

Your rating: None Average: 2 (8 votes)

Flayrah's tendency to give soapboxes and megaphones to kooks isn't really anything new...

Anyone wanna place bets on when the first pictures of fursuits with naughty parts Photoshopped in get submitted to the site as "proof"?

(Photoshopped pictures on the internet? Say it ain't so!)

Your rating: None Average: 2.9 (17 votes)

He's nothing but a drama whore. But this. THIS. This takes the cake.

So now we're resorting to steal pictures, and calling people out. And you wonder why non-furs think the fandom has too much drama. Assholes like Insane Kangaroo pulling this shit.

I wouldn't be surprised if he gets hurt over this. And I would be glad if he was.

Your rating: None Average: 4.2 (14 votes)

If you don't feel the story is a good one, you are welcome to rate it down, but we're not going to avoid posting about stuff just because of who did it. The most we'd do is avoid naming the person involved, which we've done in the past for this individual. I didn't feel that could be justified in the current circumstances.

Personally, I think the database is a bad idea – except perhaps for those looking for sex partners – but this is separate from whether it is news. Fursuit sex is a trending topic; I've seen the issue crop up three or four times in the last couple of months.

Several people floated the idea of such a database, and many more wish participants would keep it off the net, or at least keep the suits at home. The fact that this site exists is something that these people and others will want to know.

I'd like to do an in-depth feature on the topic of fursuit sex. Interviews with those on all sides of the issue could make for interesting reading.

Your rating: None Average: 3.8 (6 votes)

You have my support sir. I see nothing wrong with this news article, and yes, if your visitors don't like it, they can make use of the system in place and rate it down.

"The Reverend" Ash Maurice Cairo
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Your rating: None Average: 5 (4 votes)

A well done write up that covers multiple sides and views (as opposed to the too common, single personal view written to sound like universal fact) could be interesting and insightful.

Regardless of how well it is done though, I expect a write up on that topic will involve sullied furs and hard to clean messes... by which I mean the arguments in the resulting comments.

Your rating: None Average: 2.5 (12 votes)

I've already warned the people who's pictures were stolen by him, and told them to warn anyone else who has similar pictures.

IK won't have that site up for very long.

Your rating: None Average: 3.6 (16 votes)

Personally myself, I don't care if someone knows I yiff in my suit or not.I got no issues admitting I do/will. Having paid all the money I did for it, I have a right to do as I please in it. But no, I would not go and get my suit all full of cock snot and then go around hugging everyone. That would be a wreckless health risk. But as far as putting me on a "murrsuit list"? Hell, where do I sign up? But if you are gonna post pix to try to "embarrass" me, IK, that don't and wont work. Let me know. I'll get you a GOOD pic you can post :) Make it REALLY all wet and splashy like ya know!. MHAHAHAHAHA!!

Just like my partner says..."Nothing like having a realistic wolf on you with his fangs at your neck doing as he wants!" :)

Laughs and howls,

AAAARRRRRRROOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!

Your rating: None Average: 3.3 (13 votes)

Maybe the list should get a domain alias: murrsuit.pounced.org

Your rating: None Average: 2.8 (17 votes)

"Baw I'm a selfish drama whore who constantly complains about stuff I don't like! BAAAAAAAAAW!"

^ IK in a nutshell.

Your rating: None Average: 3 (16 votes)

The guy is a scumbag. Nothing but a 2nd amendment whore, who takes it too literally. His move to Pittsburg to thinking he can change the laws there will never happen. He may have gotten E621 shut down, but guess what it came back better than ever, so thats a fail. His mega fail, bringing a handgun to Anthrocon, will always be remembered.

His life will be nothing but fail all over the place, no matter how hard he tries. I mean look what happened to Sarah Palin trying to be vice president. :)

Your rating: None Average: 2.8 (10 votes)

What also bothers me about what IK is doing and the pics/vids he intends to show on that site of murrsuits, is the flak/fallout that fursuit makers could get and how their reputations/businesses could be hurt. 99% of fursuit makers in the fandom will not make any type of yiffy fursuit or add SPH's lest they get a lot of flak on their reputation/business. If there's a pic of a suit on that site that was made by a well known maker, then I dread the thought of a lot of people jumping to wrong conclusions about a maker and thinking the fursuit maker is making yiffy stuff when in actuality they might not. I can almost see the following happen:
Person A views a pic of a murrsuit on that site and goes: "OMG! I know that suit! I know the style and who the maker is too! I can't believe he/she is making yiffy suits. Well, He/She is not getting my business! I'm going to rant about him/her in ****** community right now and tell all my friends to stay away from him/her!"

Your rating: None Average: 3.1 (20 votes)

As someone who has personally been duped into making physical contact with a cum-stained fursuit head, I have no remorse for anyone who ends up on tis list.

That's what you get for having sex in an animal costume and putting it on the internet.

Your rating: None Average: 1.5 (16 votes)

Baw some more.

Your rating: None Average: 2.8 (18 votes)

Allow me to paraphrase for InsaneKangaroo:

"BAWWWWWW!! Nobody cares about my idiotic insistence on firearms at Anthrocon anymore! Nobody's paying attention to me anymore! I've got to get the eyes of the fandom back on me, because I can't justify my existence if people aren't watching me!"

"I know! I'll start collecting pictures of fursuiters hugging kids, and claim that the suits have CUM all over them! That's stupid enough to get people noticing me again!"

Trollfur is trolling.

Your rating: None Average: 2.9 (15 votes)

You're just giving the troll the attention he craves. Look, his whole history is that of PAY ATTENTION TO MEEEEEE! He's a hypocrite, a liar, a self-centered creep who doesn't have any respect for anyone, and a person who only does these kinds of things to get buttpats from his troll buddies under the guise of a fake burned-fur style 'morality' justification.

And the more attention you pay to him, the more he'll pull this kind of shit.

Your rating: None Average: 4.8 (6 votes)

Call me crazy here, but the comments more or less started out discussing about the actual issue of murrsuits and their contact with the public and other furs who aren't keen on being hugged by a night activity costume.

It seems to me it's been the commentators who have turned the attention over to the guy who created the site instead.

Your rating: None Average: 3.5 (8 votes)

I think it's fair to say that the title and part of the story did place attention on the creator.

Would it have been better not to mention it? That's a tough call. I'm willing to make significant edits to style and grammar, but when it comes to what facts to include I tend to rely on the judgment of the poster - it is, after all, their story.

In this case, the creator's background provided context to his decision to start the website, and not mentioning it might be seen as a disserice to our readers. The one substantive change I made was to clarify exactly where he carried his gun.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (4 votes)

Well I think it was important to mention it was by Insane Kangaroo and give some context at the end. The thing is as a person from the UK, I'm not all that particularly interested by this IK guy, to me the main point of the news article is the website itself. I find it strange that the conversation swirling more around the person than the site he has made. Kinda reminds me of this commentary I saw the other day off Surviving the World blog.

Comments like reply #20 at least make criticism of the website's intentions and that's where the debate should centre around. If people think his intentions with the directory are a bad idea than that's what the discussion should be about, not attacking the guy himself and then ironically accusing this site of giving him attention. As far as I was concerned he wasn't the core subject until people kept talking about the guy.

As I said, I can understand where he's coming from, but I don't necessarily agree with the execution. It's more amounting to naming and shaming than trying to help the issue. I do think there should be some sort of way by which fursuiters can voluntarily say they use their costume as a murrsuite, don't hug it if you feel uncomfortable with it's use despite being washed after. That kind of thing.

It's not a full solution in itself since being voluntary will mean many won't admit it (nevermind the numbers who won't know the site exists anyway), but it goes someway towards furs being respectful towards each other's preferences. Murrsuiters who volunteer the information have our respect for being considerate towards others.

Your rating: None Average: 3 (12 votes)

This is the same Insane Kangaroo who also tried to bring a gun to Anthrocon saying it was his 2nd amendment right and tried to get various sites like E621 shut down.

There is something wrong with him,i've found info about him on various gun sites.

Your rating: None Average: 3.3 (14 votes)

I wouldn't trust this database. Blacklists always wind up full of misinformation. If I.K. leaves it open to anyone to add anything to it, it will wind up full of furs who don't have sex in fursuit added by trolls for lulz or embarrassment.

Insane Kangaroo has been plotting to get revenge by embarrassing Kage and Anthrocon this year by doing media interviews during the con. And I would be very careful if he's seen hanging near the Westin too.

Your rating: None Average: 3.1 (13 votes)

Even if he doesn't leave it open to anyone to add anything to it, it's still going to be full of misinformation, stockpiled with I-heards and I-thinks.

If he DOES leave it open to just anyone, it'll become a fantastic way to get revenge on any fursuiters you don't like. Did Johnny Foxguy make you upset? Report him to IK's site! Since it's all hearsay anyway, your complaint looks just as valid as anyone else's, and you damage Johnny Foxguy's reputation.

The only saving grace is to make sure that God and everyone knows who's running it, and what an attention-seeking lowlife he is.

Your rating: None Average: 1.6 (7 votes)

Hear hear!

Your rating: None Average: 4.2 (6 votes)

Your point is irrelevant. The site requires proof of the suit being used in sexual activity in the form of video or pictures in order for it to be posted.

Your rating: None Average: 1.2 (5 votes)

proof of the suit being used in sexual activity in the form of video or pictures

I hear that's pretty easy to do with Photoshop these days.
Your rating: None Average: 2.5 (21 votes)

He keeps this up, he's gonna get shot.

And I won't shed a tear if he does.

Your rating: None Average: 3.3 (9 votes)

Another issue I have of this, is that it takes nothing into context.

For example, say I were to have a fursuit that's been in public for many years. Never once used for anything sexual. Then comes the day I choose to retire the suit, as such a day comes to all fursuits. So, I remove it from public performance and choose to let it finish out it's days as a play suit. I decide to share pics or video on xtube, and subsequently make this "name and shame" list.

Is it appropriate for my retired suit to be on this list? What if I have interchangable body suits, and never get anything but sweat on the head?

There are so many holes in this (stupidly named) "Don't hug me, Bro!" list, it's disgusting. It is nothing more then a tool for him to troll people, now that his cub crusade is no longer getting him attention.

Your rating: None Average: 3.7 (16 votes)

I'd like to know exactly what "health issues" he refers to, as his site is rather vague on that part. I'd also be interested to know which bodily fluids he is referring to; Semen? Urine? Sweat? Saliva? Blood?

Okay, I am being pedantic there. He's obviously referring to semen, but my point is that all of the above are bodily fluids and all can carry diesease or health risks, some worse than others.

He also goes on to say "They usually use chemical cleaners or soapy water, which is not enough", suggesting that washing oneself at all is a fruitless endevor as no amount of showering or bathing, even in industrial strength bleach, will ever remove the evil that is "bodily fluids".
It doesn't matter how much you wash your bed clothes and sheets, they will still retain the vileness that has spilled from you. Now that I think about it, it's beginning to sound a bit like Homeopathy.

I have to admit to having a snicker at his use of quantum physics. Who knew that semen could exist as a solid AND a liquid at the very same time?

What it all boils down to is that "mursuits" are a sexual taboo to some people. Sure it might make some insecure people squick or feel "dirty", but it's really no difference than any other type of human sexual relations. I could tell you stories about Sci-Fi conventions and Ren Faires that really do put "murrsuits" to shame for being boring.

Overall this guy is either a bigoted closed-minded jerk or a douche of epic proportions.

Oh, and I'd like to leave a final thought to those who are squickish. Coming into physical contact with anyone (which everyone does every day) is more likely to transfer bodily fluids (especially urine, saliva, mucus, and maybe even faeces) than hugging a "murrsuit" (which might happen once a convention, if that), every surface you touch could have thousands of germs and microbes living on it. Get over it and grow up.

Your rating: None Average: 2 (4 votes)

I'd go with both.

And well said! You should send this piece of epic to him.

Your rating: None Average: 2 (3 votes)

"I have to admit to having a snicker at his use of quantum physics. Who knew that semen could exist as a solid AND a liquid at the very same time?"

Ejaculate is comprised of both liquid and solid parts, when the liquid evaporates the solid part of the ejaculate remains behind.

Your rating: None Average: 2.8 (5 votes)

"Ejaculate is comprised of both liquid and solid parts, when the liquid evaporates the solid part of the ejaculate remains behind."

You misunderstand; I was poking fun at the blurb on his website.

Semen does contain solid mass in the form of sperm cells and lipids. The liquid part, the seminal plasma, is what contains all the nasty STIs. As any intelligent person knows, STIs can only infect a host by entering the body directly (ingestion, blood transfusion, penetrative intercourse, etc).

His website states a very old belief akin to the belief that one can catch an STI through sharing a toilet seat with someone who is infected, which is clearly not the case. The basis for his proclaimation that dried semen can transfer infections to another purely through physical contact is entirely false and highlights the fact that he's either poorly informed, is twisting the facts to further his Daily Mail style Name and Shame agenda, or a combination of the two.

Unless you rub an open wound up against, or lick/suck, the area of a fursuit that, in the very rarest of cases, actually has dried semen it is totally impossible to contract any STI from said dried semen.

To recrap, his entire "health issues" arguement is flawed and thus becomes null and void.

Your rating: None Average: 3 (13 votes)

...I seriously think people against this are getting way too up an arms about it.
You're putting photos/vids of yourself doing it out there already. People already have lists with those muggs on them warning people to avoide them. Some much more detailed than others. I_K just made a public announcement about it is all.

Your rating: None Average: 1.4 (10 votes)

Nice alt, IK.

Your rating: None Average: 2.9 (9 votes)

Yea I guess...if this was I_K.
Why assume this was I_K Anon, just because I agree with him?

Your rating: None Average: 2.5 (13 votes)

Y'know what? Given the chance? I would. I would get a fursuit-murrsuit. And post it everywhere. JUST to piss off Insane Kangaroo. Because when you've made someone ragebaw over something you enjoy, you win.

Your rating: None Average: 3.2 (15 votes)

Not to worry.. the site will be removed shortly. Complaints submitted with both Internic and with XTube for digital copyright infringement and domain registration irregularities.

Furryzone.com
David Ross ()
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Fax: +1.5555555555
P.O. Box 3548
Homer, AK 99603
US

Your rating: None Average: 1.8 (6 votes)

I love you.

Your rating: None Average: 3.2 (17 votes)

I wouldn't go near, much less hug, a fursuit that people had been shagging in. It's just gross. The nerve some must have to do the nasty, and then prance around in public with it knowing where it's been, cleaned afterwords or not. You don't wear bondage gear in public; then why is a fursuit you screw in OK?

Because, it's not just simply a sanitary issue either. Even if it'd been cleaned, the idea is still there. What if I were to say to you: "I love my Iphone. Like REALLY LOVE my Iphone. All night every night. But, it was OK to bring out in public and play with, and let others play with, because I wash it!" Would you look at my Iphone like it was just another one? Much less touch it? You can't wash away a thought.

I'm not saying sex in fursuits is inherently bad. When it comes to the privacy of the bedroom: to each their own. Just don't bring it near me.

Besides, all of the videos and images on the list are already publicly available. All he's doing is putting them in a place that could make them look bad to some. If the people on the list were worried about that they wouldn't have posted the video or pictures in the first place.

The drama in large part seems to be caused in large part by the fact that Insane Kangaroo made the site. In fact, a majority of the comments here have been little more than childish personal attacks on him. They completely ignore the real subject of this article just to go at him. I'd just like see more legitimate arguments on the subject rather than just petty incoherent rage post. I'm not supporting him personally, just this service. I actually have no personal opinion of the guy. He just seems like a guy who sees something he doesn't like and is doing something about it rather than bitching.

I'm glad for the list though, and hope it picks up steam.

Your rating: None Average: 3.9 (12 votes)

Lets assume you were in a situation you got a shirt dirty with something you knew you could wash out (while doing plumbing, food prep, handling garbage, whatever). If someone came up to you and said it doesn't matter if your shirt could be cleaned, the thought of it having been dirty still makes it disgusting, would you stop wearing that shirt? Would your own reasoning here convince yourself to stop wearing something you thought was thoroughly cleaned?

It is true you often can't wash away thoughts of disgust, including with reason. But where is the line drawn in terms of what should be stopped, and how many people need to be disgusted by principle at something that doesn't affect physically (other than the outcome of their emotions)?

(This post is only in reference to a case where things have been completely cleaned, and not remarking on how easy or hard or likely something is to be cleaned.)

Your rating: None Average: 3.2 (5 votes)

It's not so much the physical dirty, as you described, as it is the metaphorical "dirty". You can wash stains off your clothes from doing chores, as you said, and wear it again no problem. Hell, they're just chores am I right? But, "Hell, it's just sex." is not something you can really say often. Because sex, unlike chores, is a touchy subject, and not discussed in polite company.

Also, when you doe chores and the like they usually have a set of work clothes you wear. Old scuffed shoes, torn paint-stained jeans, muscle-shirt/tank-top, a pair of gardening gloves, ect. If you showed up to a social gathering in this outfit one might ask, "Why are you wearing your work clothes?". If you showed up in a fursuit you'd shagged in another might ask, "Why are you wearing you sex clothes?".

Your rating: None Average: 3.1 (8 votes)

You didn't answer my question really. It wasn't about what you find dirty, or what you think "It is just..." doesn't apply to. If some random other person tried to use the same reasoning you've been using to describe sex clothes as dirty and inappropriate, but instead for something you think is cleanable and of no physical consequence, would you change how you dress?

I could continue to adjust the details of the hypothetical situation, e.g. wearing the work cleaned work clothes to a hardware store or fast food restaurant, etc., but that shouldn't be necessary. The point is if there were a situation where you were on the other side of the disagreement about something being dirty, only in non-physical, non-explicit sense, how much would you expect to change your own actions, and how does that compare to what you are expecting of a fursuiter with a cleaned suit?

Your rating: None Average: 3.8 (4 votes)

Ah, I see what you're getting at. And no, of course I wouldn't change simply because someone found something of me distasteful from their own personal perspective, nor do I expect the suiters to feel any different. I'm no hypocrite. I never said they would, or even should, stop shagging in, and then taking they're suits out in public because I find it gross.

This is exactly why the list is necessary though; Murrsuiters aren't going to change, and people still find it gross. This way suiters can still get freaky, and others don't have to get near a spunky fursuit if they don't want to.

Your rating: None Average: 4.6 (9 votes)

I see where you're getting at with this question to FreedomFox, but the problem is that it seems irrelevant to his discussion point. I didn't interpret anything he said as being along the lines of "Murrsuits should not exist" or "Murrsuits should not be worn". He said:

I'm not saying sex in fursuits is inherently bad. When it comes to the privacy of the bedroom: to each their own. Just don't bring it near me.

What FreedomFox is talking about is essentially etiquette, if you're going to go to a furmeet with your friends parading around in your fursuit which may have had nighttime activity, than it's polite to let people know it's nature. It might be embarrassing but it shows respect for others. Most probably don't mind hugging a murrsuit after it's been clean, but it's not acceptable for some. It's a lot better being straight up with the information than say randomly hugging people without consideration for what afterall amounts to a taboo subject.

And thus if we were to take your hypothetical situation, if someone felt my clothes were dirty and inappropriate I would than just go up to the person and give them a big bear hug would I?

Your rating: None Average: 3.4 (5 votes)

You read into my comments a little too much. I wasn't suggesting that Freedomfox thought fursuits shouldn't be used for sex, I was just saying that people will give little weight to someone arguing something (e.g. publicly wearing such suits, not the sex) is bad in general because of indirectly reminding others of something disliked but of no physical consequence. Of course it is not helpful that some other people use the exact same reasoning to say why certain activities or kinds of people shouldn't exist out of disgust of things done in private, but that is not the point I was going for.

And most furries I know in person would not hug someone if they said they didn't want it for whatever reason (although if the reason was bad, it would be awkward). In the same sense a lot of people would avoid a random topic if it reminded someone of a death, but only around that person and after it was pointed out and if not much of an inconvenience.

But there is the question, how many people need to not like something, like hugging, before you should act a priori like something is forbidden? And what if it is for something purely psychological, in the sense if they didn't know it would not affect them? If it is such a big deal, why are some of these people hugging anyone, in fursuit or not, because of what some people do with clothes or just their bodies?

My issue is that when things get disconnected from reasons based on physical consequence, they can start to get more inconsistent, fickle, full of special cases and even outright random in more esoteric cases. If it was something physical, like assuming cleaning is imperfect so there might be still something there, that can make things much more clear-cut. Otherwise, questions like the above ones, which I know still seem straightforward in some cases, have grey areas and problems. For an example someone else mentioned, what if a different body suit was used, so the head would physically be no different than one used for other, innocent activities? Or what about those that have to wear clothes over that area of the suit anyway, so you wouldn't be able to touch something regardless of the cleaning job? And what if someone doesn't like your innocent fursuit because it reminds them of what others have done with other fursuits?

I actually haven't made any statement about whether the list is a good thing or not, or whether such suits should be warn in public. I am only questioning using this particular line of reasoning to support the list and think it has issues, regardless of if there are other valid reasons for the list or against public use of such suits or what the resulting etiquette is. Just because this line of reasoning seems to give the obvious answers in some simple cases doesn't make it solid.

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At the risk of sounding rather thick, I'm actually having trouble understanding this comment because in my opinion it's gone a little abstract. I don't mean to be disrespectful, I am genuinely uncertain of the point being made or discussed.

I think you're questioning the line of reasoning used for wanting cleanliness or something, but could you please clarify for me what you're laying scrutiny into?

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This particular thread of comments started with the idea that the problem with such fursuits existed regardless of any physical conditions or cleanliness of suit, that the problem exist as a purely psychological level of being reminded of or connected with sex. I.e., that assuming a suit used in sex was perfectly and completely cleaned, or possibly never even dirtied in the process in the first place, it should still be kept out of public because of the associations people would have. There is a lot of possible problems that such reasoning can have, even if in the case of dirty fursuits it produces to give obvious answers, and people should probably stick to reasons are based more direct, immediate consequences.

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Ah I get you know.

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Now even.

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You know, logged-in users have an edit link . . . ;-)

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In fact, a majority of the comments here have been little more than childish personal attacks on him.

I agree, exactly what I've been saying to. I'm glad you've contributed this comment discussing the issue itself rather than just focus on the man behind it.

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Some of the dumber comments and responses are kind of humorous though thanks to bringing up issues about the guy's interest in guns. It is funny to see people attack one issue with tactics they seem to be upset about being used against them on another issue. And some of the parallels that brings to mind, like exaggerations of safety issues and how that trumps others interests, or complaints of punishing and lumping the responsible with those that handle things irresponsibly.

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Probably would have helped had the topic not included IK's name, but then again, it probably would have come out in a comment and resulted in the same thing eventually.

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I would personally be really irritated if someone shagged in a suit and then came into physical contact with me without any warning or knowledge. It's disrespectful at best and nasty at worst. While I know no one's going to get violently ill after coming in contact with a gummed-up fursuit, there's a sense of violation in being touched and then finding out that the person didn't respect you enough not to be grabby.

That said, IK could get across the same message without the "come, incriminate yourself!" tack he's taking. People who don't respect other's boundaries aren't going to willingly register -- only those who are willing to take responsibility for their own actions are.

If it's the issue he really cares about and not the attention, IK would be better off championing the cause of raising awareness (PSA or petition style) than by asking for a list.

Hell, he could have gotten the results he claimed he wanted just by opening the database in the guise of a "find a hookup" list, instead. Instead, he's taken the approach that says, "the following people are totally grody:..."

How about a PSA instead? "Please be respectful if you're wearing a fursuit you've shagged in, and don't touch anyone who doesn't know the suit's full history."

Because this isn't the route he took, I think it's safe to conclude that it really is designed to make waves.

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Again, he's nothing but a attention whore and troll.

Can we please stop feeding him?

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Oh fun fact: Everything you post on Xtube is covered by DMCA. It's right on the bottom of their site.

IK stole pictures from that site, so yeah. Copyright infringment ftw. He ain't gonna have that website up for very long.

"Do I retain the copyright and other legal rights to material I upload to XTube?
Solution Yes, you retain the copyright to your content. When you upload your content, you grant us a license to use and display that content."

tl;dr IK didn't get permission to post copyrighted images, so either take it down, or lose your site.

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EDIT:

Pics are gone, only links now. And now he's chasing down the people in question.

Yeah, this is nothing more than a witch hunt. Nothing more than a sad attempt from a attention whore.

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Witch hunt? Not at all.

Information will be published about individual fursuiters after the submission is validated.

I'll make a slideshow web application which will go over linked sites so people can casually browse and see the fursuits with ease.

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I find it quite funny how the links you have posted up don't offer any proof of the claims you are making.

You obviously just have a problem with these individuals. Grow up dude.

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Protip: Don't feed the troll.

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Not showing any images directly doesn't devalue the database. Xtube links are given where the content can be found.

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yea but still you should have not created site in the first place you stupid troll!

i shall ban you from da internetz for evvverrrfours!

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STFU no one cares!

i totally think your site is so lame... i think you are so jealous of not getting laid in murrsuits so you just attack other suiters with your jealous rage

so you are a revenge troll. there are all different types of trolls on the internet. but you are just called a revenge troll..

i would have said you are a spam bot but i guess that would be stupid to diagnose that type of troll you are

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wow so you are trolling because you are so butthurt for being banned from anthrocon

now you are attacking fursuiters for having sex in suits... dear god just grow up

"applauds"

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Not to point a finger, just wanted to submit a correction to this statement.

The DMCA notice was filed with Pair Networks, the host provider for the site in question. Even though the images were stolen from XTube, XTube can not be held liable for that theft. This is because the images in question was being illegally displayed on a host that was not affiliated with XTube.

Plain and simple answer here, don't post stuff that doesn't belong to you.

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Don't. Feed. The. Attention. Whore.

Good god.

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It's people like Insane Kangaroo that make fursuit sex all the more fun.

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Crusader Cat, the Ken Mehlman / Ray Cohn of furries!

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I would like to point something out sense no one else here has seemed to notice, or if they have, haven't bothered to say anything.

Look at the posts that are venting on Insane Kangaroo (The majority). Go ahead, scroll up and check 'em, I'll wait... Now, do you see the how noncontributing they are? Notice their word choice, harsh language, briefness, and how many of them use the word "troll". This especially applies to the comments made after Insane Kangaroo himself posted.

I'd like to point out such shining examples as the comment made by, "Anon (visitor) — Thu 27 Jan 2011 - 20:31", "Crusader Cat (visitor) — Fri 28 Jan 2011 - 15:04", and "Anon (visitor) — Fri 28 Jan 2011 - 12:23".

Who are the trolls here?

On a similar note, I'd also like to point out that this is a great example of the fandom's overuse of the word "troll". It's pretty much come to mean anyone who doesn't agree with you rather than some one who's trying to piss you off for no reason. Your favorite color is blue? Well mine's red. I must be trolling you.

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tl;dr

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IIn general, it is very hard to discuss anything in the fandom as everyone quickly gets quite emotional.

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The thing is there are dirtier things you touch everyday.

First off, why do we need to hug everyone in a fur-suit... if you don't know the person well enough to know if their suit has some holes in it then you probably shouldn't be hugging them in the first place.

I think it isn't the murrsuit behavior that is the oddest thing here, it's the need to feel that you have to hug someone just because they're wearing a fursuit. I mean, hugging is like one step away from kissing, which is one step away from intimate relations. If we're handing out hugs so willy nilly that a list like this is necessary, it no wonder our sexual behavior might also be askew with social normalities.

That and I'm sure some of the money as a cashier was far dirtier then any murr suit.

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I do agree with Sonious point that there is in a sense, an irrational idiocy in having a preference for not coming in contact with a murrsuit, since like he says, you're more likely to come in contact with far dirtier things in life without carrying such as using an old chopping board or touch the handle to a door.

I dunno. While I don't personally mind hugging fursuits provided they are cleaned every so often, I guess I personally feel if people have the preference for not wanting to hug murrsuits they should have their preference respected, rather than what someone earlier in this comment thread asking them to just face their fear, or something along those lines.

Sonious has got a point in saying if you're the type that is genuinely cleanse like (I knew a friend with a clean OCD compulsion, that he had to clean his hands with bleach every so often) you wouldn't go up hugging any fursuit in general. It's a grey issue though, humanity never tends to be behave in a consistent way, we make rules for one thing, but do things that contradict our preferences. It's kinda like water that's been recycled from urine, some people will simply not drink it even if it was cleaner than regular water.

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InsaneKangaroo, since you apparently read this, I have some questions for you.

1) Will you be restricting yourself to posting fursuiters for whom you have photographic proof that they engage in sex while in their suits? (REMINDER: A nude photograph is not sex)
2) Will you be posting only fursuit name, furry name, and the images in question? Will you be leaving off personal details that could do harm to the individuals in question?
3) Will you be verifying information before you post it?

If the answer to any of these questions is 'no', then I question the validity of your database.

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Oh and IK. Since you are reading this, I've taken the liberty of warning the people you posted about on your website, and they've been warning others of this. This attempt to incite a witch hunt will NOT be tolerated. Certainly not by a attention-seeking troll who's made it his life mission to ruin and control the fandom.

Take the site down, or face the consequences. Your choice.

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Internet tough guy here. Better do what he says.

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I would like to know how this does more damage to them then what they themselves did by putting the video up on x-tube... I mean if they didn't want people seeing these videos, maybe, I don't know, they shouldn't have posted them?

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The website could be damaging to those that posted videos on x-tube by giving free advertising, superior to x-tube's often broken interface and spam filled search, that will earn them a new wave of fans, and the popularity might go to their heads, turning them shallow and alienating their original fanbase. Or maybe it will help them connect with someone else with similar interests resulting in a deep relationship, that a few years later fades like many other relationships, and they separate and have to learn to move on with their lives after a rich and fulfilling relationship all thanks to this website.

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It is ironic isn't it? The website that's supposed to 'harm the reputation' of murrsuits might actually be the central database that makes it mainstream.

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I hear ya. There's to much talk no enough action. I say we all start tracking down these troublesome individuals and take care of them in person. >:) That's a sure fire way to prove many of us are sick and tired of the bullying tactics of some. Sounds like a good time to me! Enough talking tough on the net. I say let's take care of business and a con soon!

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Look, I don't judge. Really.

But this guy's digging himself into a hole now, and when he gets into trouble, don't count on my sympathy.

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I'll get the popcorn.

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BTW, for those who are saying that he could be sued or something for posting things without permission, Fair Use allows this, especially if the original publication was to a public forum.

If I can get to it without paying for it, or being approved for it, it's public.

If you don't want people seeing your cock hanging out of a fursuit, don't post pictures of you in a fursuit with your cock hanging out.

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Because we totally were able to anticipate a drama whore stealing them and posting them on a witch hunt website.

Oh wait. This is Insane Kangaroo we're talking about.

Nevermind.

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Fair use in the US depends on several factors, and the pay-vs-free nature only addresses one of those factors. Just because something is not behind a pay-wall use it any way you want. You also have to consider how much of it you use, and what for. Using a single image of a video only for the purposes of commenting on the video might address the other factors.

But the part that can make fair use messy, is it is only a legal defence, in the sense it helps you win in court if sued. You can still be taken to court for fair use of something, and deal with the money and time that involves. Luckily/unluckily, depending on your side of this situation, people on both sides probably don't have time and money to try to go to court over a copyright issue that is rather trivial compared to what courts normally deal with.

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And that's where you're wrong. IK will defend what he believes in, in court, to the end.

Filing the DMCA doesn't matter. He'll notify his intent to counter it, and then people are going to have to take him to court.

Fair Use, generally, in the US relies on four factors:

Purpose and Character
Nature of Use
Amount and Sustainability
Effect of cost against value
Standards and practices of the community

The purpose is critique and reporting. Courts rarely ever cover that, and give more wide lattitude to people who do things in that area. The nature of the use is a single picture / image from a freely available and viewable site. While the courts may hold that the people involve own copyright, they may also state that the accessibility to that image is a key factor in determining the nature of the use. If you put yourself on a porn site, the courts may hold, and that site is available to everyone, then you are in no different position here. Amount and Sustainability.. one frame from a movie. That's not enough to cause issues with the impact against fair use. Effect of action against value? Well, if it's available on xtube for free, one frame is not going to alter the value at all. In fact, it might drive MORE people to Xtube. Finally, standards and practices of the community. Furs are exhibitionists. Putting yourself on Xtube in a porno is a standard and practice of this community. Therefore , ending up on another site can be seen as some aspect. I know people have saved images from xtube and FA, to their own computers.

In short, I think if they DMCA this, and IK fights it, he'll win.

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That doesn't really disagree on any point of the parent post other than using more words and explicitly spelling out all of the fair use factors. And it also suggested he could win in court, but sometimes that is not enough in the sense getting taken to court can sometimes be a big mess even if you are certainly on the winning side.

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Yes, in those cases, it will come down to who is willing to spend the most money.

I can almost promise you that, if IK is as insane as he looks, that he will take out massive loans in order to win.

So do you think he's not insane and dedicated enough at this to win, no matter the cost? Cause I think he IS.

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If posting links to videos and art peaces is breaking copyright... then furries that link to commissions they bought are in real trouble.

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The post you replied to was more referring to single frames taken from a video, which is what the site used at one point before switching to links only. Some failed copyright lawsuits targeting people posting links and some jurisdictions making linking certain material illegal aside, just posting a link is pretty far on the safe end of the spectrum. Posting a whole video, even if the original was publicly available, probably on the other end of the spectrum, and posting just a single frame for appropriate reasons probably falls on the safe side.

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Took a look at the site and I have to say that it might have had good intentions but was executed poorly. I mean this site basically is a furry sex offender registry if you ask my opinion. Not to mention just being cannon fodder for trolls and the media who are looking for the next dirty scoop on those weirdo animal people.

This site really needs some help. Sorry to say I.K. but you really need to revamp the thing if you want to actually be of any use. There is no search function or even a index. Where's the alphabetical order in this thing? How am I going to find a certain suit without having to scroll all the way down the damn page? Without search and an index to quickly find suits this whole thing is doomed to fall flat on it's ass and face.

Just my take on the whole thing.

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Jesus H Christ, how much of a FUCK-UP do you have to be to get yourself BANNED from AnthroCon -- the same venue that's happy to let full-time PARASITES abd HATEMONGERS such as Allan and Crusader Cat waltz around like fucking GUESTS of HONOUR?!

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Don't get me wrong I am for concen up the fandom but how big of a problem is it? OK you might t have 10 in a fandom of thousands. to me its much to d about nothing. A bigger concern is how many "furs" think furry is a just platform for their fetish or sexual identify rather than those who like furry as a genre.

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rather than those who like furry as a genre

All 10 of them. Ok, ok, just kidding, the furry survey gives interesting numbers here, even if inaccurate.

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LOL more like 80% of fursuiters. ;)

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More importantly, who cares? Oh wait. Insane Kangaroo does. Can't stop the cub artists, so now he's going after fursuiters. Is he really that immature?

Grow the fuck up and stop ruining our fun.

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Rule 34 on Insane Kangaroo!

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that comic with you kissing him wasn't enough?

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I hope it becomes successful. I have no problem with people using their suits for whatever, but don't bring your sex toys into public and hug people who don't know what they're hugging, or hug children! If someone has a vibrator that is also a flashlight...you don't lend it to your neighbor without telling them what it is, its just not fair to them.

I personally would prefer to know if something is just a fursuit or a sex toy before accidentally and ignorantly hugging it or coming into contact with it.

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Do tell us what your sexual interest is. :3 So we can all judge you also. ^_^ I have a few suits some I've had sex in some I've not. I bet ya ya you never guess what one is witch unless you know me personally. I'm extremely concerned with cleaneness with my suit's and there cleaned after each use sexual or non. That's more than I can say for many that don't role-play in there's. People like your self are the same kind of people that avoid being around others with cancer because you fear your going to catch it. Please get over your self and jus avoid all fur suiters if your that paranoid. :)

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LOL @ all the brave young furries standing up for the bad people in this fandom. All the while I know all to well how each of you would behave if all adult art was removed fro
public. Each of you flap at dogs walking on two legs like the rest of us assholes. Don't think your any better than someone who does it in there $2000 suit. Get over your selves. This is an adult fandom, it been this way long as I've been part of it (going to cons for over 10 years.) Many of us have punched our time cards for a lot of years an we have sure paid our dues. It's only been in the last few years that there's been a growing number of children coming into our fandom thinking they can make into what they want. Shit you might all destroy it before it's over with the constant drama and know it all attitudes. Never the less us older guys that have been around a hell of a lot longer and we will be here to reclaim what was ours after the children have grown tired of there toy. So keep the shit up but when the fandom turns into total chaos or things your into is pulled away from it don't cry. What goes around comes around; always.

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I would disagree only in the sense that as a fandom it can be seen in one or two ways, or a blending of the two.

If I say I'm a fan of feet, it could mean I'm simply a foot doctor, a shoe designer, or anything that's practical. To others it can mean the fetish. So in understanding the reason the murrsuit thing is a 'devisive' issue in the fandom is because it's the psychological point where the two come to a point of separation or integration. Sex is a complex subject and many people would rather keep that aspect private, while others not so much. It varies from person to person.

You're right in that no one is better then another simply because the instincts that drive their urges are slightly less bizarre then the one next to them. But when one wears their fetish suit openly, I don't think it's reasonable to not get comments from those who tend to keep those kind of things to themselves and see the public place as something where sexual deviancy shouldn't be openly expressed, even if it was of a 'straight and narrow' 'vanilla' nature.

As far as the generational evolution of a group it happens, all the time, with everything and every group. It's how slaves became free, it's how gays will eventually get married. Now not always for the better, we all will die, and many look around and are afraid of death, but if one really believes their ways are right, then I think they should not fear the younger generation, for if you are doing what is right, the youngers are going to follow.

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I say just leave people alone. Everyone has there own tastes. I'm no different; just about everyday that passes I see at least one thing that makes me shake my head and say why? There's a lot of things I don't like: art depleting females with huge tits, over sized gentenilia, vore, use of body fluids and ugly poorly built fursuits among other things; I find some of this down right disgusting and disturbing. But I never go onto forums demanding these things be removed for the common good of the fandom. I just keep my mouth shut and let others enjoy there selves. As long as no one is doing something to harm someone else with out there own agreement just leave it be! Doing things like this are done for one reason; to hurt others for your own benefit. If anyone needs to be shunned and removed from this fandom it's the trouble makers that do everything they can to create drifts and social panic for the sake of lulz. These people like the person this blog is about are not the saviors of this fandom. After there done with this crusade they will start another. Don't believe me wait and see. My guess in the next ten years furry will implode if this nonsense does not cease and desist.

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"If anyone needs to be shunned and removed from this fandom it's the trouble makers that do everything they can to create drifts and social panic for the sake of lulz."

And thus the conundrum, you can't make a list of these individuals, even if it were to only be a list in your head, for do so would be doing the same thing as him. I'll have an opinion on his site, and him as a person, but I'm not going to intervene with the choices he makes.

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I say let's make data bases of everything! Let's be fair and make one for every kind of fetish so we can all avoid one another. Lets segerate everything! After all there's always going to be something someone else does not agree with. First off I want to see a list of everyone who masturbates so I know never to shake hands with that person. :(

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Openly furry here. Never had a need or reason to hide it. If anything I have found it beneficial in the fact that when I am approached about it, it gives me an avenue to explain the common misconception that being a furry and being into bestiality are NOT the same. Sort of puts furry in a better light by dispelling a common misconception. Guys like this one that has this site open are not going to do anything cept give a lot of furs good publicity while making himself look like another emo kid to everyone else. He is only serving to alienate himself by bringing the negative attention to himself as he has. He gets the attention he wants for the short go, but I would bet you a shiney new dime that he dont have any, or very very few, that hang by his side and are regular friends. He gets that short term attention till the topic dies and then he is off to find something new to bring his misery to the fandom in a public venue with. One only needs to look at this very threat to see how much attention he has gotten here to see what I speak of. Its like tossing gas on a fire. You are fueling the very thing he craves with the negativity here. Look at the numbers of responses in this topic alone! I bet you he sits and reads this, giggling to himself of all the stir he has caused the furs. If you DONT want to give him what he seeks and let him slink away like a spoiled little child that cant get what he seeks...then stop giving him all the attention he seeks. Simply dismiss him and let him fade away into an air of unimportance that simply doesnt matter. Otherwise you only further his entertainment and give him what he seeks.

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This isn't a "one attention seeker vs. everyone" type of situation, but something where there are many people on both sides of the issue. Saying that it will only get him negative attention and will leave him alienated from everyone is false because there are quite a few supportive people too.

Too many people seem to be unable to differentiate between trolling, where the attention and mess are the end goals, and other situations where people have an agenda or other goal in mind, even if using attention as a means to that end. And even if this were an attempt at trolling, it doesn't change that many others are still in complete agreement.

Try to turn this issue into a matter of attention-seeking or malice doesn't help anyone on either side of the issue.

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Anon...his past has shown this. he stirs some drama for attention, and then the moment that dies down he looks for a new means to get trouble stirred again. There are some people that thrive on such things, and his past exudes has shown him to be one of those individuals.

"trolling" is jnot a term I use for the fact that its used far too much on a vast variety of actions. Simply put, "Causing trouble togain attention" is what I call it. No more, no less. The "many others" that are in agreement, as you imply, seem to be rather short in supply, and what of them there are, are usually of the same blood as IK in what I have seen so far. one only needs to surf the sites and look up the names of the "supporters" of his ideas. read the things they say and have said about this, and other topics in the past. They are 99% about controversy and confrontation...otherwise they have nothing to offer the fandom. Seen it far too many times.

I dont turn this issue to anything, I read it for what it is.

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Interesting how some people can be so ignorant to prejudge others based on what they see on the internet instead of actually getting to know the individual.

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Sup drama whore. How goes your crusade against the fandom? Butthurt from being banned from AC, so now you're going after fursuiters.

Trollers gotta troll, I suppose.

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LOOK OUT INSANE KANGAROO SOMEONE'S TRYING TO SHOOT YOU!!!!

I'm in an elevator at AnthroCon with Insane Kangaroo, Allan, Crusader Cat, Osama bin Laden, Kim Jong-Il and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. I have a gun loaded with 6 bullets.

I'd shoot Insane Kangaroo, Allan and Crusader Cat *TWICE*.

IN THEIR FUCKING HEADS.

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I'm sorry, but even as someone who strongly disagrees with the website in question and much of the reasons behind it, I find this view to be quite delusional and disconnected from reality. Even if multiple people involved are jumping on a bandwagon to ride on the attention of the issue, something possible on both sides, that doesn't stop the issue or serious supporters from existing. Otherwise, the portion of my friends that support this, but aren't posting anything about it, need to be informed how bad of a job they've done stirring up trouble for attention. And people calmly talking about the issue, and possibly not concentrating on a single person involved, should be given tips on how to better get attention.

But I guess I see the beauty of such a view, because it is near impossible to argue against "Your side of the issue doesn't actually exist, so you must be doing it for other reasons."

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I can't wait to see what kind of campaign he goes on next when this one fails. He's probibally going to demand that all furry porn be destroyed because it's technically bestality porn.

Take it from me loonyroo, that WON'T WORK!

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This is really a huge tempest in a teapot, for one simple reason. Having been to many conventions, I know of no fursuiter that goes around hugging randomly forcing people to hug them. In virtually EVERY instance I have seen, someone ASKS a fursuiter for a hug or the fursuiter personally knows the person that they are hugging.

There isn't a need for people to be attempting to "out" those who have whatever kind of interest, because if you don't want to hug a "murrsuiter", then don't ask fursuiters you don't personally know for a hug. It's really that simple.

It seems that the whole issue here is the desire of one or more individuals who want to poke into the private affairs of other people, possibly for attention. If they enjoy doing so, perhaps they should be opening up their own private life for public scrutiny. Or would they be afraid of their own skeletons being exposed?

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I would agree on the hugging thing. I find it strange that people would hug someone they don't know (if they don't know it's a murrsuit, then they don't know the person.)

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His only doing this because his got a vendetta towards furries after he was banned from Anthrocon, getting banned from #fursuit when he wouldn't shutup about guns (and almost from #furrycoffeeshop when he posted the "Do Not Hug" website) on Anthrochat, taking on a whole community over on E621.net and now his got a thing against fursuiters.

At this rate his just going to get banned from the furry community, period.

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This. This so much.

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He's going to be banned from YOUR furry community (fixed).

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*sigh* Another person posted, another person warned.

Yes. Everytime I see a new posted on that site, I go to Xtube and warn them.

IK can't win.

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How does warning the people listed help IK not win? Isn't one of the points of the site is to let such people know they've been noticed? In that case, if IK isn't informing the people himself already, you are helping the site make an impact if you get the people with such suits to change their actions.

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This right here ^

I've nothing against murrsuits, what I'm against is people wearing murrsuits in public. While I do know some fursuit makers who also make a spare fursuit for public use, most people do not.

The message is clear: Don't wear murrsuits in public

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More clear messages:

AnthroCon 2010 =/= the Wild West 1870

2nd Amendment =/= automatic right for any American to carry any gun, any number of guns, anywhere and at any time

Insane Kangaroo =/= Jesse James

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Here's some answers for you:

First, the city where AC is held is an open carry city. IK NEVER SAID A THING ABOUT AC, and if you think he's the only one carrying at AC's hotels, I'll just say this much.. members of security carry at AC. Or at least, according to my now gone friend, have in the past. I know a certain older artist who will show you his weapon if he trusts you.

Second , what the second amendment is and is not, is up for massive debate. What is not up for debate is that the state of Pennsylvania IS an open carry friendly state, so long as you have a legal permit. The states have rights to set rules, and Pennsylvania allows it. In fact, while your second amendment argument may be correct, here's what Pennsylvania has to say about it:

"The right of the citizens to bear arms in defence of themselves and the State shall not be questioned."

Period. SHALL NOT BE QUESTIONED.

So you're right, the second amendment is not that straw man you made it out to be. BUT, PA has open carry, and you'll have to cope with that.

Finally, I don't like IK. I think he's a bit of a dick. But this anti-gun thing is quite a little bit of a straw man. I've established that members of the DI have carried in the past. I've established that many furries carry at conventions. I've established that one VERY POPULAR furry artist will tell you he's carrying a gun and then dare you to take it away from him. AND, the head of AC, Kage, knows this full well.

Just.. when you bitch about IK on the gun issue, realize that's a straw-man issue being used that is illogical.

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Every single fur at AnthroCon could be wheeling around a 50-cal Browning machine gun for all I care, since I have no more intention of visiting AnthroCon, or indeed any furcon whatsoever, ever.

Pay hundreds of dollars and fly thousands of miles for the 'thrill' of getting to rub shoulders with the likes of Insane Kangaroo, Allan and Crusader Cat? I'd sooner be buggered by Rick Santorum on live TV and without lube.

Jesus H. Christ -- FUCKING FURRIES!!!

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You could bugger around with Rick Santorum while at Anthrocon, I'm sure he lives in the area somewhere.

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If Rick Santorum drew furry art, every furry would be queuing up to shake his hand and suck his dick, EVEN THE GAYS SANTORUM HAS SAID SHOULD ALL BE IN PRISON.

THAT'S the black hole of self-defeating stupidity furries have dug themselves under the guise of 'tolerance'.

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Evidently a fellow believer in 'Open Carry':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueuauKKjPZI

Betcha his is bigger than yours!!! :-D

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No, the message is: "I'm an attention whore who keeps going on crusades to ruin the fandom cause I'm butthurt from being banned from a convention."

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OK, there is something driving me nuts about the comments following IK's most resent one. Where in any of IK's posts does he say anything about open carry, or mention anything about guns for that matter? Yet people jump at it regardless of it's relevance to the topic of the article, contents of the post, or the debate at hand.

Most commenters here couldn't string together an on-topic, much less coherent, post to save their lives.

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When people get emotional about a topic and feel the need to react, but lack any actual, relevant counterpoints, they might just attack any random other thing. They think some ad hominem statements actually accomplish something, at the least upsetting people.

But every single post attacking some off-topic issue or attacking a single person in the whole mess, is essentially an endorsement for the site, saying "I don't like it, but I can't actually see anything wrong about it."

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WHY THIS IDEA IS STUPID:

1. He states there is a "health risk" from hugging a murrsuit, yet fails to even mention anything. He didn't give any more information because he has no other information and is using this as an excuse. Answer me this Roo; I hugged a fursuiter who just recently had sex in his suit and didn't wash it. what diseases am I going to catch? What is the risk to my health?

2. He assumes suiters don't put their suits in the wash. How does he know this? In order for this to be valid, he has to talk to EVERY fursuiter in the fandom.

3. He states that chemical cleaners and soap and water is not enough to wash away semen. In reality, this is a perfect way to wash seman away from clothes.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_wash_away_or_kill_semen

4. He claims that suiters do not wash their body suit after they have sex. How does he know this? Unless he is already intimately fimiliar with murrsuiters (i.e. had sex with a murrsuiter) or spoken to EVERY murrsuiter in the fandom, he would not know this.

5. If there are people who don't want to touch murrsuits, then they just won't hang around fursuiters. Any idiot (except for IK apparently) knows that suiters just don't hug any random person, the open their arms and wait for the potentional huggie to come to them. As a fursuiter myself, I know this very well.

WHY INSANE KANGAROO CANNOT BE TRUSTED WITH ANYTHING HE DOES:

Insane Kangaroo is known by many to be mentally unstable. He is a known racist, and anti-religious bigot. Despite claiming to fight against cub porn, he has a bunch of them favorited on FA (Spyro the Dragon is cannonically speaking, only 9-18 years old)and he has animal porn (not furry porn ANIMAL PORN) on a laptop computer that he supposedly shows to children. I'd show you a screenshot of the chatlog where he admits this, but I unfortunatally, lost it. Add to that, he was soliciting a much younger girl on FA.

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/aowacc/

All this is nothing compaired to, what many people consider the ultimate atrocity of bestality. I myself have been falsly accused of this. I thought it would be fun to play along with it, but unfortunatally, it got out of hand as many people know. Anyway, here is IK complaining about laws that prohibit bestality:

http://www.topix.com/forum/source/ktva/TFOO06HG58M9VJJSQ

All this may be seemingly irrelivent, and I would not argue with that since it has very little relation to the topic at hand. I am simply putting it here to show that Insane Kangaroo is in fact just as insane as his name implies. When I first saw this, it was not the very idea of this that annoyed me, it was the fact that it was IK who started this. This brings me to my fnial point:

WHY INSANE KANGAROO IS REALLY DOING THIS:

To put it plain and simply, he's doing this to glorify himself. He doesn't care how the fandom looks, he just want's everyone to praise him for the false morality he puts on. This is very evidant by the fact that whenever he does something like this he absoloutly HAS to brag about to everyone. Let's look at a few examples:

1. He attempted to get me arrested twice for crimes I didn't commit. He bitched about it on livejournal when it didn't work (Livejournal now BAWWLEATED)

2. He loudly protested his ban from AC 10 and tried to get everyone to treat him like a patriotic martyr. The truth of the fact is, He was banned from Anthrocon that year because he and 40 oz Hyeina were planning to start a flash mob. I was the target, physical assault and vandalism of my fursuit were not only intended, but planned out in detail. Among some of the thins IK posted were "He (refurring to me) should be beaten like a Vietnamese hooker, bonus points if it's in the bowl cut faggy ass fursuit). I reported him to Anthrocon security, and he was banned about a month later.

3. After a (failed) attempt to shut down e621, sofurry, and inkbunny, he proceeded to brag about it in order to recieve praise. He was banned from furry drama 2 livejournal for exactally this reason.

4. He asked to be apart of the furaffinity staff as a programmer, and even had the audacity to demand payment (he apparently forgot that Dragoneer doens't spend money on anything other than food or porn). Basically he was saying "If I ran FA, all this bad stuff wouldn't have happened". luckally, for FA, the staff is getting wise to his ways and denied him the position.

http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/88111-Will-FurAffinity-ever-progress-Proba....

5. Now we have this, like I said, it's not the idea of this existing that bothers me, but the fact that loonyroo is plastering his name all over it and announcing it like it's the beginning of a new age. Still not convinced that IK is just being a self proclaimed furry massiah? Well, here's some more:

6. http://insane-kangaroo.livejournal.com/75521.html Here we have banning a 14 kid from DA. Now there's nothing wrong with helping a kid who's got some serious problems. But the fact that he's BOASTING about it is obveous proof that he ONLY did it to wave the banner of self-righeousness above him to recieve the undeserved praise of the fandom. But considering what he has done to me and my family, (calling my father claiming to be a mental health physition, telling him that I'm clinically retarded, and should never be let out of the house because I would commit a gay genocide, and BLACKMAILING him to make sure he would do it) makes me question the accuracy the above link. Look at everything he does, and you will see that he's doing it for his own glory.

This idea is stupid, and Insane Kangaroo is stupid. Normally I would tell you do get out of the fandom, but you are digging your own grave at this point. Keep in mind, Silver Automatic and the WYS gang tried to act like the Furry Thought Police, and that quickly went under because the couldn't handle the backlash they got from the fandom. This WILL happen to you if you don't stop right now.

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Crusader Cat committing a gay genocide might not be such a bad thing, provided:

1) He only went after those gays who still think it's cool to say, "Vaginas, ewww!!!!!"

2) He then shot himself in the head as well, the dumbfuck fundie faggot.

Crusader Cat, he makes Ken Mehlman look straight and sane!

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This would have been a perfectly appropriate, thoughtful, and valid comment criticising the website, if you stopped after the first five points actually about the website. But more than two thirds of your post was was about the person running the site that have nothing to do with the site itself. Even if everything you said about Insane Kangaroo was complete and exact truth, it still has nothing to do with the website itself and is inconsequential.

Do you actually care about the website and resulting problems it can cause, or is attacking Insane Kangaroo more important? Because here it looks like you think attacking IK is more important and higher priority than any of the problems with the website, in which case your problems with the site must be below the level of an interpersonal problem, right? Otherwise, why would you risk ruining things with all that baggage, and dilute your original reasoning? You do understand how such stuff affects how people receive and interpret what you are writing?

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Like I said earlier, I won't argue if you claim a lot of the post in irrivelent, because it is. But to answer your question, I personally find attacking IK more important than attacking DNH. DNH is stupid, but it's 10 times stupider because loonyroo started it. He is the only person on earth that I ever truly hated. I appreciate your criticism of my comment, it was very incitful.

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I thought you were just screwing around, and tbh I wasn't believing you were posting.

Go ahead, continue... don't be surprised when your dad sits you down for another talk.

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Don't be suprised when a cop knocks on your door for threatening my family.

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Wow... bear false witness much? I can't think of any sober person calling that a 'threat'.

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Insane Kangaroo threatened your family; YOU make threats regarding the lives and liberty of every homosexual on Earth.

Crusader Cat? Crusader fucking fundie CUNT, more like!

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LOL the sheer ammount of gay friends I have prooves that your full of shit.

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Do tell me how calling your father at work over your malice behavior and statements equate to "threatening my family."

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"BAAAWWWW YOU HAWASSED ME I'M GONNA CALL YOUR PARENTS!"

That's all I'm seeing from you.

Achievement Unlocked: Cry sum moar

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I'm not an idiot, he told me what you said. He was paranoide that you would slander his bisnuess WHICH IS WHAT YOU DID! You posted pics of my parents on lulz, as well as the address to his bisnuess. You scared this shit out of him.

Not only that but you lied a lot to make it look like you had authority.

1. You claimed to have a "backround" in mental health, your an IT guy, not a mental health physian.

2. You claimed I was "severly mentally handycapped" and I was suicidial. I am neither

3. You claimed I wanted to kill gay people at AC

4. you said if I went to AC, you would beat me up (remember how I reported you)

But that's not all, you also did the same thing to the staff at my college.

The Dean came up to be saying "Someone from out of state told me not to let you go to a furry convention" She had no idea what you were talking about, I had to explaing to her what furry was (and did so successfully) both she and my advisor knew you were a nug job just from the way you talk.

Look roo, if you got a beef with me, then talk to ME don't be a chicken shit coward and threaten my friends and family. The fact that you never spoken to me one on one show's how big a pussy you are.

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I'm a healthcare worker, I never said I was a clinician, I work in IT. I've reported people for appearing mental instabilities to people, they get cleared up fast.

If someone posted your father's info on Lulz, then my acquaintances did so against my wishes. They were told not to repost any information.

Generally if a single person has trouble with tracking, we work in teams, it's how we trace people. The same goes for the young man who damaged f-list, he was also traced using a team.

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Internet tough guy here, folks.

What a troll.

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I love you.

Post this everywhere. We need to know this.

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http://crusader-cat.livejournal.com/24845.html feel free to spread this around.

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Crusader Cat is credit to team.

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In that every when he gets too involved with the transactions, he'll bog down you in debt and plummet your score.

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Crusader Cat is a credit to the cause of eugenicists.

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LOL! Everyone, check this out! Insane Kangaroo couldn't create a counterargument to my above comment, so he just started a lulz thread about me using the naughty pics I sent him!

http://lulz.net/furi/res/1455307.html

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So first you call rule 34 on IK then you're sending him sensual photos of you in your fur suit? You're like Helga from "Hey Arnold!" aren't you?

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Cumming this summer:

Allan v Crusader Cat v Insane Kangaroo

"Whoever wins... humanity loses!"

Rated NC-17 for scenes of parasitic, obsessive-compulsive extortion, far-right fundamentalist hypocrisy and dick-substitute teabag gun-nuttery.

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Psst.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=attention+whore

Insane Kangaroo in a nutshell.

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The only thing I wonder on that site is that: "Isn't it a dictionary's job to define individual words and not phrases?"

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Most dictionaries define idioms and phrases if they have a distinct enough meaning from just their constituent words.

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Seeing as the phrase is self explainatory given the definition of "attention" and "whore" this is one of those cases where making it's own definition isn't helpful, it's redundant. An attention whore whores for attention.

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Oh wow. Just looked on IK's favorites. He has cub porn on there. Spyro qualifies as cub.

I smell a hypocrite.

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Oh and since I know IK reads this;

Nice cub porn on your favorites, hypocrite.

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I think the bigger question is why hasn't this picture been taken off of FA yet if it is indeed cub.

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Because it's Furaffinity, duh.

When do they ever do something smart?

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Aww isn't that cute. He's trying to hide the truth on his Wikifur page that he has Cub Porn on his FA.

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Try to post the truth, get banned.

Fucking furries.