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'Softpaw' artist Mizzyam arrested on child pornography charges

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Furry artist Mizzyam, also known as MisterNivens and Amarimasi, has been arrested after a month-long Internet child-pornography investigation.

Known in the real world as Michael Shalapata, the 24-year-old resident of Hamilton, Ontario was taken into custody on November 1 by members of the Ontario Provincial Police Child Sexual Exploitation Unit and the Hamilton Police Service Internet Child Exploitation Unit.

Shalapata was charged with "making child pornography available and two counts of possession of child pornography". Four computers and "other items" were seized.

Mizzyam contributed to issue #4 of the erotic cub fanzine Softpaw Magazine. He also maintained an art account on Inkbunny where, the day after the arrest, a message appeared, ostensibly from his sister. The message stated that Mizzyam would:

[...] no longer be participating in online activities for an undetermined length of time. Unfortunately, I cannot tell anyone why, but something awful occurred the other day and those who are close to Mizzy and have been privy to his confessions will have a very good idea of what I'm referring to.

The account was closed later on the same day.

Comments

Your rating: None Average: 2.5 (2 votes)

Because I feel compelled to fill the void:

Shalapata was charged with "making child pornography available and two counts of possession of child pornography". Four computers and "other items" were seized.

Null hypothesis: His and other art is being considered contraband.
Alternative hypothesis 1: Participation in a torrent honeypot.
Alternative hypothesis 2: Manual uploading and downloading.

have been privy to his confessions

This sort of statement does not bode well for the null hypothesis.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (3 votes)

Yeah, I don't think this is about art. I think this is about child pornography. The message also says that:

[...] he knew and expected this day to come and accepts full responsibility for his actions.

Softpaw #4 was published in 2008. If it were considered contraband, we'd have had a lot more arrests, and a lot sooner.

Your rating: None Average: 2 (1 vote)

Hence, it's the null hypothesis.

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Let's be clear; this is the real thing, not cub.

I think a guy being arrested for cub porn would have had a message posted saying "Shit, guys, I got arrested for cub porn!" On a cub friendly site.

That being said, wow, what a shocker. To be clear here, I'm not saying cub porn makes pedophiles; it's the other way around. Also, shoots to hell that crap "cub keeps'em away from real kids" line of b.s.

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Also, shoots to hell that crap "cub keeps'em away from real kids" line of b.s.

To be completely fair, it doesn't sound like he was charged with actual child exploitation, only in trading of the paraphernalia. In this way, this appears to be less like Alan Panda and more like Frank Gembeck.

EDIT: I suppose the statement hinges on what the meaning of "keeps 'em away" is.

Your rating: None Average: 4 (1 vote)

I will agree this guy sounds a whole lot less dangerous than Alan or even Mitch Biero (who did not do cub).

Though I meant real porn as well as actual contact; what I'm saying is I jack off to furry porn, cartoon human porn and real human porn. I don't see why pedophiles are any different on that count.

Your rating: None Average: 3.6 (5 votes)

Humans? Eeew. I didn't need to know that, crossie!

Your rating: None Average: 3.3 (4 votes)

Actually, no you didn't.

But I can only speak for myself. Also, nipping the "stop being a prude" comments in the bud.

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shoots to hell that crap "cub keeps'em away from real kids" line of b.s.
Though I meant real porn as well as actual contact

So real porn of kids are morally equivalent in your eyes to real kids? Does that mean that every time you watch real human porn, it is morally equivalent to having sex with the actors? If your answer is yes, then you are morally obligated to obtain personal consent from every actor in a porno before viewing it. If the answer is no, you are being morally inconsistent and may want to reevaluate your thinking.

Smile! The world could use another happy person.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (6 votes)

Real porn with children is enabling to those who do these acts to real children, yes.

Here's the thing: In adult porn the adults you're watching actually went through the act of sex, they also consented to doing such and being filmed and viewed by other parties. In child porn, someone had to film it without the child being in the legal frame of mind to make such a decision.

One has a concept on what they're getting into, the other is being taken advantage of. It's relatively simple, and the fact you're defending real stuff now is extremely disturbing. Cub art I could understand on your end, but actual children? No.

Your rating: None Average: 3.7 (6 votes)

You both have good points.
Watching child porn is not directly harmful to children.
On the other hand a real child was harmed to produce it and the consumption may lead to more children being harmed.

There's another point that's also good to consider. A compromise might be to prosecute those that create child porn, which is directly harmful, but it may be prudent to let consumption, not directly harmful, slide. Once it's produced there is very little extra harm that is produced and there has been evidence that consumption of child porn might lower the number of sexual assaults on children. I think that came from data in Czechslovakia which at one point decriminalised child porn and saw a drop in the number of sexual offences against children, while all other crimes remained stable. If that's true then on balance it might be best to allow consumption of child porn while outlawing production, similar to Portugal and some other countries' stance on drugs.

Also worth bearing in mind is that paedophile (who would watch child porn) is not the same thing as child molester (who acts against children). They are overlapping groups but child molesters are not all paedophiles and vice versa. There are in fact support groups for paedophiles that do not want to harm children and their involuntary desires can cause great mental distress to them.

Edit: It was the Czech Republic, as it's also mentioned in a link in a post below.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

Your rating: None Average: 4.3 (6 votes)

No, what I am saying is that f you are watching real child porn, you are watching a real child be fucked.

So, in that way, yes it exactly the same thing as a real kid being fucked because a real kid is being fucked.

They usually don't use stunt doubles, you know.

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Everyone - and I do mean EVERYONE - has dreamed of murdering someone. Everyone has contemplated how to rob a bank. And some people have fantasies about other illegal activities. Like pedophilia.

99% of those people, or more, never take it beyond fantasizing about it. Not because they don't have it in them. Because they know it's WRONG.

Just because 1% or less actually crosses that line doesn't mean it should be made illegal.

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Right on. Yay thoughtcrime! :P

Smile! The world could use another happy person.

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I've never contemplated how to rob a bank.

Your rating: None Average: 2.3 (13 votes)

So it is official.

It sucks he'll be leaving because he was a really good artist.

Still, this doesn't surprise me a whole lot.

A friend of his told me in Canada this is treated more as a mental condition than an actual crime (as it is in the USA) so that may be some consolation.

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The USA allows those with dangerous weapons to pass. But not those with dangerous thoughts.

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Any visual or written depiction of sexual activity by a person under the age of 18, real or imaginary, is illegal in Canada, unless it has artistic, educational, scientific or medical merit as judged by the court.

There are several instances cited on Wikipedia of individuals convicted for possession of lolicon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography_laws_in_Canada

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What's the situation if the characters being depicted are anthropomorphic animals?

I recall this WikiFur news article from 2008, which says: "In Canada - where Softpaw is printed - furries are considered animals, due to a 1989 case involving Omaha The Cat Dancer." Has the situation changed since then?

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So is there confusion about whether this is cub or not? Did I jump the gun?

The cub supporters lose either way, but actual porn is their better hope. Yeah, this guy goes away, and any future argument they are going to be very tired of being linked back here, but it does not really effect them. Just one guy that didn't stick to the the gameplan and went too far, not our fault, and that would even be true.

If this is over cub porn, in theory, he can and even should be defended. But he got arrested. Really for real arrested. In practice, furries don't historically have the backbone to make the sacrifice necessary to defend this issue. So, we'll cave easy, is the way I see it. Not even InkBunny will touch the stuff if there are actual consequences.

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Mizzyam's message suggested the presence of material he knew to be illegal. I think this thread is more general.

Edit: Canada has developed a definition of child pornography; however, it focuses on people as human beings. Indeed, this decision rests on the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, which states in Article 1:

For the purposes of the present Convention, a child means every human being below the age of eighteen years unless under the law applicable to the child, majority is attained earlier.

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Just to clarify, I'm not commenting on what Mizzyam was arrested over, specifically. (As far as I know there is not yet any information on what sort of images were involved there.)

It was just a general question about Canadian law.

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Find out the truth about what the porn industry doesn't want you to know! Pornography is addictive, it destroys lives and has been linked with depression, child abuse, sexual violence and human trafficking.
Find out the truth at http://porntruth.wordpress.com

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I bet the next thing you link is how masturbating is a sin against god. gtfo.

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So this is the post we all rally around?

You won't stop me masturbating until you pry my dick from my cold dead hands!

Also, porntruth, stop spamming.

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It's not about religion. It's about the truth. 1/3 of porn addicts lose their jobs. Porn addiction is cited in 53% of divorce cases. 48% of trafficking victims say porn was made of them in captivity. Porn promotes sexual violence and destroys relationships.
Know the facts before you decide to watch.

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You do know there is difference between responsible porn use and having a porn addiction, right?

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

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Hi, Paden!

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There isn't a lot of research, but there is some so lets see what science has to say about this.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/30/smut_freakonomics/

Now, anyone who actually harms a child needs to be dealt with, but I am very much against thought crimes and in this case, banning cub/cp seems to do more harm than good.

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Now we're defending real child pornography.

You guys make it real hard to not feel smugly morally superior ... oh, fuck it, you guys are so terrible you are actually making me feel like a saint, so, I guess I owe you all a thank you.

Thank you, now stop getting kids fucked, please.

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No one's defending it, people are saying we should look at the evidence and use that to inform our decisions. If the choice is between "child porn is illegal but lots of children are molested" and "child porn production is illegal, consumption is legal and fewer children are molested" which one would you choose? Even if it's not the ideal choice shouldn't we mitigate the harm as much as possible?

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

Your rating: None Average: 3.2 (6 votes)

It's always "mitigation" until it happens to you or someone you know. Should we allow people to sell that video of Clementi since you know, damage has already been done, the kid already killed himself, might as well have someone get some enjoyment out of it, right?

Illegal or not, I'd really have to question someone who knows the darkness that went to go behind creating a product but chooses to consume it anyway for their own personal benefit because their present desires overrides the rights of a past person.

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I'm not sure who Clementi is but I'd imagine the situation there is rather different, though I can't tell you why cause I don't know the specifics. Though I must question what rights a past person could possibly have. Once someone is dead they are no longer aware in any sense, no longer are moral beings and can not experience having their rights violated. Aside from emotional carry-over from when they were alive they have no more claim to rights than any other inanimate object. One way that this can circumvented is to say the body becomes the property of the family and therefore misuse of the body or person's memory is a violation of their rights.

It might be that the videos should not be shown for violating the child's rights. That almost certainly is the case and so the next question is whether, as happens in many other situations, whether those rights should be suspended for overall benefit. It's important to note here, and you too Crossie, that any release of the videos is not done for the benefit of the people watching it but for the benefit of potential victims.

There are those that create the videos and those that watch the videos. The creation of the videos is harmful and must be dealt with but watching the videos is not directly harmful to any individual. There is also evidence that watching the videos can prevent those that would harm children from harming them, in which case allowing those videos, but no their production, could overall reduce the harm to children.

The question then becomes, based on available evidence, what do you want to achieve and what is the most effective way to achieve that. If your goal is to reduce the number of children that are molested and if child pornography reduces the number of people that molest children then allowing those videos is the most effective way to reduce harm to children. However that does not at all mean the videos are good or that their production should be supported, just that it's a better situation than the alternative.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

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Past people actually have a lots of righ ts in America; you cannot display a Native American corpse or certain. Ritual items important only to basically extinct Native American cultures, nor can archaeological digs remove artifacts from burial sites wiithout special permissions (basically, an amateur potdigger can't remove artifacts from public land, and cannot disurb gravesites even on his own property. Professionals have a bit more freedom.).

Off topic, but on purpose before the bullshit gets really too deep on both sides.

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On topic, they wouldn't make videos if noone watched them. Yes, I will secede that the watcher should be treated more leniently than the creator, but the watchers are still part of the reason the kid got molested, so he is not without guilt.

This is not about punishing people for what they jack off to; it's punishing them for indirectl causing a child to be molested. People who watch are like co-conspirators to commit child abuse.

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"It's important to note here, and you too Crossie, that any release of the videos is not done for the benefit of the people watching it but for the benefit of potential victims."

No, it's for the purpose of the person who is looking for it to get off, they don't care about the people in the video as much as they do for getting off on the content. Where they get those videos isn't a "self-help" site, they are in fact porn sites. If real videos are the only thing keeping someone from making someone IRL a victim, they need to realize that they are a danger to society and get professional help, not pusher "help".

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They get cp from .onion sites, your welcome.

there's tons of it.

goodbye.

Your rating: None Average: 4.5 (8 votes)

I think it's safe to assume Rakuen thinks actual child pornography isn't all that bad.

Your rating: None Average: 4.4 (7 votes)

Yeeea. When I first read his comments I thought he was talking about CP artwork, but apparently he's talking about the real thing. It's rather disturbing that he seems to think that these abused children in the videos don't count as "victims". Hint: THEY FUCKING ARE!

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it's really weird when you consider his main argument defending cub porn is that it isn't real; oh, and also free speech

But this is real and ... by weird I mean he's scaring me again.

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He's trying to be objective at least, which is more than I can say about the majority of people. He is WRONG because allowing the stuff to exist creates a demand.

This is a sensational topic so it's hard to have any serious discussion that doesn't de-evolve into "us vs. them." In the US at least, possession of CP is seen by most people to be on the same level as molesting an actual kid. I think that is ridiculous. Yes, it is wrong but there is no way you can convince me torrenting pictures causes the same amount of net harm as committing the actual act.

Now I'll wait for some moron to tell me I must be pro-CP as well...

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I'm going to try this one more time.

I do think child porn is bad. I don't if you just don't read my posts or something but I said:
"creation of the videos is harmful and must be dealt with"
"that does not at all mean the videos are good or that their production should be supported"

What people need to do is decide what they want to accomplish. Is it they want to ban child porn for it's own sake or do they want to reduce the number of crimes committed against children? If it's reduce the number of crimes against children then it might be that allowing possession and use of child porn is the best option because it has been shown that availability of porn reduces the number of sexual assaults. That applies to pretty much all porn and in multiple contexts. The only reason I'm suggesting allowing the porn is to reduce the number of children assaulted. I'm not sure if the same results can be achieved with virtual porn or not. If they can then I would promote that and agree that real child porn should all be illegal.

I'm not in any way saying production should be legal or tolerated. It is bad but you can't just ignore the evidence. Yes, the children in the videos are victims and that's terrible but I'd rather have possession of child porn legal and half the number of victims than maintaining a complete ban and having and even more victims. Fewer children harmed is better. The evidence currently points to porn as lowering offences.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

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Your logic is mind bobbling stupid.

It's akin to saying "If we legalize cold blooded murder, surely the murder rate will plummet! IT'S FOOL PROOF"

Your Czech example doesn't prove anything beyond wishful thinking and nitpicking of unrelated statistics.

Your 'alternative' is nothing more than a shallow request for illegal content to be made legal.

I'm not fond of pointing fingers Rakuen but your responses me tell me you have ulterior motives. Specifically, the legalization of child pornography under this childish notion that 'legalizing it will most certainly lower cases of abuse.' You sound a lot like BETAWOLF, who called for child pornography and child rape to be legalized so we can 'rehabilitate' sexual predators.

If thinking you a potential sexual predator makes me a 'bad person' then good. I'm happy I have the right to call a spade a spade without being muscled into coddling some sick and twisted philosophy such as yours because 'Pedophiles are victims too.'

I pray for your sake you do not have access to children.

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Well, glad to hear you took the bold stance of "child porn bad."

Sorry, but given your track record ("cub porn good", "nothing wrong with fucking dogs" and "damn, Alan Panda is goin to jail, that sucks"), "nothing wrong with child pornography" is, what's the phrase you use? Philosophically consistent.

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So let me get this straight.

Children get raped and molested.

Some sick fuckers videotape and distribute it. We need to prosecute this disgusting individuals

BUT

In order to curb child molestation, we need to make child pornography legal because trying to prosecute it clearly doesn't help.

That's the ONLY way to curb it in your opinion.

Are you fucking serious? Of course you are; I'd expect nothing less from a child raping apologist.

For the sake of children everywhere, please seek treatment. You are not well.

Your rating: None Average: 4.2 (10 votes)

This is a bullshit argument; the only people who make it are people who want to jack off to children without consequence and refuse to acknowledge you canlt, Rakuen, you really can't.

If a tape showing a child being molested exists, then a child had to be molested for it to exist. This is pretty simple.

Molesting kids to stop child molestation doesn't work.

Your rating: None Average: 3.8 (9 votes)

"If a tape showing a child being molested exists, then a child had to be molested for it to exist. This is pretty simple."

Thank you for summing it up brilliantly. Either Rakuen is really thick or is in denial about something.

Your rating: None Average: 3.6 (8 votes)

I fail to understand how you possibly think that fewer children would be molested once it was legal to distribute it. "Hey guys, child porn is legal now, come to childporn.com for all your paedophilia needs! Tell your friends - we need the ad revenue!" Yeah, there's no way that could possibly result in an increase in demand (and thus more harm). Good god, man.

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If people would read the article instead of one-star voting me for including facts in a discussion, you would see that all the evidence shows that more availability means less kids being molested.

I'm not saying we need to make real child porn legal. Anyone who makes real child porn should be arrested and thrown in jail. Same with those that sell it, as that DOES create a demand for it.

But drawing it? Or cub porn? That was what this whole discussion was about in the first place.

People keep repeating their opinion that anyone who draws cub must be a child molester, or if you see cub art you will become one. That's nonsense. All the evidence shows that more access to porn means less violence.

So if people want to draw cub, I say fine. Let them. Don't like it? Do what I do and don't look at it. But don't go on a holy crusade and make things worse out of ignorance.

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The discussion was about actual CP.

Are you saying making actual CP legal wouldn't create a demand for it?

Last I checked, when you make something easier to obtain there's more demand for it.

Your rating: None Average: 3.7 (6 votes)

Right, got confused with another discussion on this I was reading.

Making, selling and buying CP should be illegal. You don't want to allow a market, however small to exist.

Possession though should not, nor should drawing or photo manipulating images to make it look like CP. It's a very slippery slope. Once you move away from direct harm it becomes more and more of a thought crime, which trying to enforce never ends well.

People seem to think there is some huge mafia-like group that kidnaps children in bulk to rape and then sell pictures of on the black market, raking in millions. I can't believe that is where it all comes from. You can make way more money, legally just making adult porn. I think most CP comes from people who would do it anyway, and just get an extra kick from taking pictures. While I agree selling it should be illegal, I don't think it does much to protect kids. It's going to get made regardless because profit is not the main reason behind it.

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It's not a thought crime, at all. You have to be caught in the act. Furthermore, in the US it is required to prove it was intentionally (as opposed to accidentally) obtained. Thoughtcrime might be making works of a purely fictional nature illegal.

I don't understand your argument WHY we should make possession of child pornography legal. All it seems like you are saying is "people would do it anyway." That is your argument? Making something easier to obtain is not going to help get rid of it. If anything it will increase demand because people who otherwise wouldn't go out of their way to find the stuff will have easier access.

Then you go so far as to say making it illegal to SELL IT doesn't really help kids.

Wow.

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Yes, that is my argument. The sale and distribution of CP is a result of kids being molested, not the cause of it.

I'd like to hear your opinion on WHY child porn is made. Do you think it's a profit-driven industry where if you eliminated the market nobody would make it any more? You think the producers of this stuff have no interest in CP other than a way to make a quick buck?

If that's what you think then I can understand your conclusion that removing the market would help kids.

But I don't think that's why it's made. I think it's made because people who molest children take pictures of it. If they were unable to post them or sell them, they would still do it. Stopping the sale would NOT prevent that child from being harmed. That's why I said it going after CP doesn't really help kids. That would only help them if profit was the drive for making CP.

So do you think profit is the reason CP exists?

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I think it is made because people want to get their rocks off. 99.999% of people (MADE-UP INTERNET STATISTIC WARNING) will deny they are into kids if you ask them. Yet there is such a large market for 'barely legal' pornography. I don't think MOST people are into small children or toddlers but where do you draw the line? I'll admit I'm into younger guys but I'm happy with my 21-year-old boyfriend who looks like he is 16 (FUCK he is hot).

No, money is NOT the only thing that creates demand. Stop trying to make the argument that suddenly allowing child porn to exist won't do any harm. That's total BS. Making it available to anyone will increase the demand. People will make the shit public just because there are others that want it.

IT IS NOT OKAY

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I wont stop making that argument because the facts are on my side. More porn results in less rape. Restricting porn increases it.

Mere possession is NOT hurting anyone. You keep talking about more people will make it if there is a demand for it, but THAT is BS. They make it because they are sick people who like to take pictures of their activities.

If possession (but not sale or buying) were legal, nobody is going to suddenly decide to kidnap a kid and make child porn simply because people can now legally have it.

In fact, if it were legal it would be spread more and harder to keep secret. It would likely get more molesters caught because people who found it wouldn't be worried about going to jail if they turned it over to the cops. Heck, the FBI would likely already have copies and be looking for them. They would have to waste time trying to infiltrate groups that pass the stuff around to try and find evidence.

Lets get this straight, I'm not at ALL sympathetic to people who hurt kids. Not at all. They need to go to jail, and this would HELP that.

Who I am sympathetic to, are the kids and if more access to already existing porn causes less kids to be harmed, THAT is a result I'd be happy with.

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The cited article is completely tangential to what I am saying.

I know looking at porn won't cause rape. Or at least, I hope so or all the cub rape I've commissioned might lead to something bad ;3

It's the CHILD PORNOGRAPHY that is wrong.

Your rating: None Average: 4 (2 votes)

How exactly do you legalize "already existing child porn" and illegalize the creation of any new child porn? Exactly how is this control enacted?
Ridiculous notion but even a devils advocate would have to say that you have a better chance of controlling genral piracy in the world.

You are still operating under the assumption that more child porn means less rel life offense.

Whether it does or does not has no relevance, the bottom line flaw in your argument is: You cannot condone the crimes that have already been committed, children that have already been abused, giving all uncaught criminals in this matter a full pardon, without several serious ramifications.

"The sale and distribution of CP is a result of kids being molested, not the cause of it." Read my post at the bottom of this thread referencing the concept of what a "Symbiotic Circle" is.

You stated you think child porn should be illegal to make buy or sell, but it should be legal to possess? Exactly how do you possess it, without having made, bought, or sold it? Let me guess, by having come across it on the internet and downloaded it for free? I can see exactly where that is going.

When something is illegal, it is FAR from helpful for society to find ways to placate possible offenders with offerings of ANY kind, in the hopes it lowers their chances of offending. HELL NO. That is the mentality of cartmans mother in southpark.
No means no, F_F. You don't prevent crime by trying to distract or placate possible offenders. Grown ups have to be responsible for their own choices and actions. Your suggestion is that of a man who promotes ~LACK OF SELF CONTROL~.

You and rabidrick are both making assumptions about who creates childporn and why. Here is some new information for you, I am a well experienced adult film actor, having participated in multiple kinds of films, and having several ties in this industry. So here is a FACT for you kiddys: Child porn, is exactly the same as any other type of porn that currently exists, in the fact that MOST of it, is not created in some random home by some random sicko. MOST childporn on this planet is created for the purpose of making money. For demand.
Shocked? The market for underage porn is UTTERLY ENORMOUS. I have two prior bosses who openly admit that if there were a way to do it without risking getting caught they would drop what they currently film, and jump on it. Straight porn makes lots of money for female actors, and little money for male actors and a good deal for creators. Gay porn makes lots of money for male actors and the creators. CHILD PORN makes more than both combined for the creators, and of course hardly anything at all for those being filmed regardless of age or sex.
And ALL genres of porn, including lesbian, are targeted for the MALE AUDIENCE.
There is no such thing on this planet, as an adult film industry genre that is targeted for the female populace. There is no money in that.
There you go, basic lesson on how this business works, from the explosion in 1975 to today.

Question my authority on the subject? Research my name and have your credit card ready. Only free porn I did was in the 1990s. I'll forget more about how the adult film industry actually works than you will ever yourself learn.

There is no separating supply and demand, nor is there arguing around laws on the subject created by important men who were voted by the majority to become important more than 200 years back, who then in turn voted among themselves after heavy debates on how to handle the supply and demand subject pertaining specifically to contraband. I believe that is much more reliable truth than some random shmo making an article or "study".

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Really, three people one-starred my post for linking to actual science on the subject?

Are you that afraid of having your beliefs challenged that you have to hide any evidence that might contradict them?

Here it is again. Try reading it this time.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/30/smut_freakonomics/

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I just found this thread, there are some things being said that make sense, and as usual, mostly things that are just plain silly.

First and foremost, someone mentioned that people who make real life child porn should be prosecuted, while those who consume it should be let slide? This is silly. Just like any contraband, the effort to prevent its creation requires condemning both the creators AND those who create the demand for it. Just like how it works with "weed". (semi-irrelevant note: Hemp being illegal is about greed, not safety and I do not agree with it, despite the fact I don't smoke)

As for people who think cub porn leads to real life porn? No pulled punches, you are an utter idiot, and more importantly, a child. Which is the bottom line. Alot of ideas are being thrown around by... well, children. Sound offensive? or "high and mighty" or egotistical? Thats unavoidable, can't say those words without it sounding that way, but we all know most of you guys are either a teen or in your early 20s, and the unfortunate nature of this "community" is that many of those who are older, are still children in the head, "living in basements" and all that. You all know exactly what I mean.

Sexuality is the same as food, people have a variety of tastes and some of those tastes may or may not change over time, some tastes capable of being introduced by others and liked, or learned over time, others never capable of being learned even if mentally you wish it tasted good and wanted to participate with those who eat it.

Thinking that those who enjoy cub art/porn/whatever will eventually lead to real life is the same as saying those who enjoy games with violence where you shoot and kill people with machine guns will eventually lead to getting guns so you can enjoy killing people in real life. Even more accurately, it is like saying those who enjoy having sex with women, will eventually lead to wanting to have sex with men, or vise versa. All joking and stupidity aside, this is ~not how it works dood~.

Unlike most furs who fear ridicule, I DONT hide the fact that I am pedo. TOTALLY and happily and proudly pedo, for dragons, dinosaurs, and some mammal characters. But for humans? no way, its gross to me.
But my pedo arts and loves are macaroni and cheese, and I eat all kinds of things like pizza, steak, hamburgers and sushi. Something should not be shunned just because some people find it it gross, while half of them only say so because they don't want to be shunned, even if they themselves don't enjoy it but don't have issues with those who do. No offense to scat lovers but I think scat is a heck of alot more gross than cub art. Call me crazy. But no word of that being banned on any furry sites.

I don't disapprove of anyones fantasy, or art. But I do disapprove of actual child abuse, sexual or otherwise. The bottom line there being that both Canada and Australia, and anyone who may follow, are retarded... RE-TAR-DED, for making it illegal to draw or enjoy child pornography. Human and animal alike.
Its lines on paper and if I can get prosecuted for making a well done oil painting of a 9 year old human boy being raped by a 45 year old guy with a big beard, then ~logic dictates~ that I should also be facing the same punishment, for making two horribly drawn stick figures having sex, and writing that one of them is 12 and one of them is 50. Otherwise, it is subjective and left to the "expert eyes" of uptight judges in our current tight ass society. Again I say, retarded.

I don't know this person who has supposedly been arrested, I never saw softpaw magazine, I probably saw some art of it floating around, but in the end, this person was either arrested for possession of actual real life human child porn, or this is another of those silly extravagant stunts to get out of comissions or plans, and make a new screen name to hide under or something of that nature. You all know exactly what I mean there as well. Show a link to a news report on this showing the artists actual name please, it may help.

But it is certainly NOT because he/she (likely he) possesses furry porn. Our local countries and laws are not that crazy, YET. (Obviously we re on our way).

But regardless, YOU DON'T KNOW. And all this speculating is dunce. Stoppit.
General advice for everyone no matter what your tastes and preferences are: Don't be so damned afraid of being called something derogatory that rolls easily off the tongue. :)

Those here who like cub porn? Keep enjoying it and do so openly among the furry community. That doesn't mean shoving it in peoples faces like annoying ass gay pride parades, but enjoy it the way you enjoy pizza. Pizza is not a subject, you order it and eat it in front of your community partners without even thinking or talking about it. The end. And Don't call someone else gross for not eating what you eat.
And those who don't like cub porn? Keep enjoying whatever porn you enjoy, and Don't call someone else gross for not eating what YOU eat, or for that matter, eating something that you think is disgusting. Live and let live. If it isn't illegal or hurting anyone? More power to you.

Whoever this person is, if they actually are in trouble for real life child porn, then I know they won't be getting out ANY time soon, but I do hope this mizzy person will be as ok as they can be. Don't know if this person is a jerk or not, and don't care, jail and court systems and all that suck royally, and I would not wish it on anyone.

“Be who you are and say what you want,
because those who mind don't matter,
and those who matter don't mind.” -Dr. Seuss

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I may not share your interest in cub art but goddamn, you hit the fucking nail on the head with your detailed response

A+ post bro, A+ post

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I knew this would come to this after involvement with softpaw which depict exploitation of fictional charterers that are minors. Now am wondering any connection to the Mitchell Beiro case. I know condoning cub porn would lead no good thing. It is well pass the time to stand up for the fandom saying no more less we lose it all. I do not lose the furry fandom or drive it we cannot go on the street because sum pedophile desire for a cub porn loop whole.

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Cub porn has nothing to do with this but I'm wondering how you came to the conclusion that *condoning it* did anything at all. This is the "us and them" mentality I'm talking about. People like you can't seem to rationalize topics like this so it becomes binary. If someone states a contrary opinion your brain goes into overdrive and instead of hearing what they are trying to say and think about it rationally you just lump them in with the other group.

So, according to you there are two types of people: those who support cub and those who are against it.

Anyway, your reply seems rather silly anyway since one person was arrested for *allegedly* doing something stupid (let's not forget there hasn't been any conviction) and downloading actual (human) CP. Well FUCK I guess the whole damn community is going down in flames. That or this whole thing will blow over in a week or two and it will be forgotten. Which one do you think will happen?

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Dam perfect example of a straw man and touch of argument ad hominen.

Yes I feel there bunch of pedophiles and throw into the max sexual fetish wishing to keep thee fandom open for their kinks even if they drive the random into the ground, I looking loss to access event spaces (hotel and other fan conventions) It not inside the fandom I worry about as much as providing red meat to others sensationalist press; all they have to do is head over to Encyclopedia dramtica for and example Softpaw. My concern if a connection is made between cub porn is made between Prosecutor and jury to cub porn. (that is if it gets to trial; I have a gut feeling look at copy of the last post on his behalf, he may cop a plea deal)
Frankly I waiting for the more shoes to drop to drop. We already more than one bad apple

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Like I said in my old Furtopia days, and like I'm *still* saying today:

Nobody cares.

The only reason we see stuff like this so much is we are on furry sites all the time. I bet if you frequented Anime sites you'd hear a bunch of drama, too. In the eyes of the real world (a.k.a. people who AREN'T furries) it's just another person caught with CP.

Cub is controversial (one of the reasons I like the subject) but you also have loli in Anime... I think Mizzy was more into violent cub rape but I don't know what's in other fandoms.

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I go in for CP should be illegal to make, distribute sell/buy, but not owning and watching it. Why?

Lets make a comparrison.

lets take a real Murder film videotaped in iraq or somewhere else. The victim in there gets tortured and killed. but the video isent illegal to own or watch.

However Child Porn where a minor is getting molested IS illegal to own or watch.

And that irks me since for me Murder is the ultimate crime one can do, and in both examples the familiies gets destroyed.

as with Mizzyam's case I feel he is more a victim than a criminal. Because lets face it, all he did was watching something on his computer in the safety of his home away from any kids. Yes what hes watching makes him a sick sick individual, but do you really deserve Jailtime for being a sick individual?

Also the law creates more problems, like if a 13 year old is looking at child porn hes is technicially a sex offender, which can land him jailtime (or something similar) and it IS happening. The Collateral damage from the current laws are way out of control. As it is now the Police are filling prisons up with people that have only watched a kid being naked on film, instead of the actual producer of Child porn. They also fill prisons up with Moms which only crime was photographing their baby in the bath, in a non sexual way. facts for this rant is taken from here http://falkvinge.net/2012/09/07/three-reasons-child-porn-must-be-re-legalized-in...

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Murder is not the ultimate crime

You know why? Because the 'victim' doesn't have to suffer further exploitation and abuse. The same cannot be said for surviving victims of rape and abuse.

And boo hoo poor Mizzyam is a victim! Yeah, he only watched and condoned ACTUAL children being sexually exploited for his own selfish needs. He only created a demand for the porn, he's not the bad guy, he's just misunderstood.

Do you pedo apologists ever listen to yourselves? I understand trying to be objective about a sensitive subject but goddamn.

And for the record, it is ILLEGAL to possess films depicting actual murder, you might want to do your research before talking out of your ass.

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You're talking with your emotions. watching "Porn" never hurt anyone. And is not illegal to possess murder videos, as I just looked it up to be on the safe side. Mizzyam never hurt or looked at a real life kid, I know that for a fact, but hes still going to be registered as a sex offender and branded a sick and twisted individual, because he tried to keep his pedophilic urges under control with porn. And yes Pedo is a preference you are born with, like Homosexuality and Heterosexuality. the only difference is that Kids cannot consent.
But if you fully support how the law is as of now, I hope you get sent some Child porn in your Email, because that would make you a Sex Offender wheter you like it or not. Also check out that link I provided, I bet you havent.

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0/10 troll harder bro.

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I read that article. It's full of strawmans, half cocked theories and wishful implication. Could you provide an article NOT written by an apologists

It says we need to legalize it so we can prosecute those who possess, what kind of batshit insane process is that?!

get help and stay away from playgrounds.

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I give up on you. you have given zero counter arguments to mine, and replied with only verbal assault. Enjoy being retarded.

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Cute, I'm the one with zero counter arguments yet all you've done is resort to strawmans, ad hominems and are calling me retarded.

Let's face it, there's no rationalizing with child molesters people. F_F is clear proof of that; he tries to be subtle and clever but only avails himself entertaining a penchant for boy ass.

Enjoy being a kiddy diddler, I hear it's the chic thing in Czech now.

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"lets take a real Murder film videotaped in iraq or somewhere else. The victim in there gets tortured and killed. but the video isent illegal to own or watch."

That statement is false, classified information cannot be shared with the general public. If you think it's perfectly legal to distribute such materials, go ask Julian Assange how that goes.

The 13 year old is protected by the Romeo and Juliet clause. You provided no link with an example of a 13 year old being arrested for viewing underage pornography. In that case I'd be more concerned with the owner of the computer who is unaware of their kid's activities.

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I'm confused as to the reaction this story has generated. The guy has been arrested for something that's not only illegal but frankly just plain wrong. He'll probably get sentenced for it as well, which is good, you do something that bad, you go to jail.

He is NOT a victim here. We don't know the exact details, but it looks like he was in possession of child pornography. Stop trying to justify his possession by saying "oh, at least he wasn't directly involved in the abuse". Also, stop equating it to other things like murder and such. Law wise, it's a different ballpark. Different motives, different effects.

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I can inform you that I am not a Child Molester as that would insinuate that I had indeed molested a child (notice theres a verbal assault again) you wanted articles that shows the law is fucked up right? Coming up right now http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,434645,00.html http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/indiana-middle-school-sexting-82949612.html http://www.newsmill.se/artikel/2011/01/14/stoppa-myndigheters-vergrepp-p-barn and another follow up article from the guy you call an Apologist http://falkvinge.net/2012/09/11/child-porn-laws-arent-as-bad-as-you-think-theyre...

Now 1 of those articles is in swedish, but it says a mom got arrested for CP after videofilming her kids for evidence of molestation (the kids sex games were to advanced for their age) she handed the footage over to the police and got arrested. She later got a not guily verdict but shes still banned from seeing her kids ever again.

Yes I know these cases has nothing to do with the child porn you think of, but its still under the same law.
Also do you want sexually depraved Pedo's who cant get off to anything because its illegal, ending up on the local playground OR stable pedos who sit at home jacking off to sick and twisted videos, but not hurting anyone?

Lets see if you can find a counter argument and not a verbal insult this time.

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this comment was maent for "Anon" further above.

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The following is meant for this F_F person:

Wait a minute, quick graze over some of the postings you made...

Are you insinuating that it is a good idea to "give a bone" to real life pedophiles by allowing them to watch real life child pornography, so that it lowers the chance of them going out into the street to molest actual children?

Folks this is the idiocy I was talking about in my last post. I thought I covered this.
We do NOT need to placate anyone who has the urge to do something illegal, in order to lower their chances of breaking the law. You were supposed to learn this when you were a child.
You are told something is not allowed by mommy and THAT'S IT. Period. You don't do it.

It doesn't matter if the subject is child molestation, or drinking while driving, or murder, or bank robbery. If something is illegal, it is your responsibility as a grown up to NOT do it. If you cannot help yourself, you face consequences. Society does not have to offer you some sort of "nicotine patch" to take the edge off obeying the law.

I said this already, read my last post. But I will repeat this old and BASIC knowledge for you kiddies:
Consuming an illegal product creates a demand for it, aiding those who create the illegal product. Therefore, to help prevent the creation of the product, both the creator AND the consumer must be punished.

Exact same concept as "weed". (Again read my last post)

~~Real life child porn makers will be punished~~ for abusing a child AND perpetuating the concept. (Which is actually legally worse than just plain child molestation in the home without cameras)

~~Possessors of real life child porn will be punished~~ for consuming the product and creating a demand for it, allowing the creators to continue perpetuating.

~CONSUMERS OF THE PRODUCT ARE NOT PUNISHED OUT OF FEAR THEY MAY ACT IN REAL LIFE~
Don't listen to the retarded white lady adding her own flare to the news casts people, believe it or not, the LAW does not care if you will or wont end up actually molesting a kid after watching these videos. The law about ~~~owning these videos~~~ STRICTLY about the concept of creating demand.
So don't spend time bullshitting about whether or not watching real life child porn may or may not lead to actual child abuse.

(The following excludes EXTREMELY RETARDED COUNTRIES that illegalize DRAWN child porn of any kind, human animal or other. God bless Amurrica)

To the LAW, it is not a video, it is NOT child porn, it is just CONTRABAND.
If you possess CONTRABAND, you are creating demand for said CONTRABAND.
When the time comes to decide what the punishment should be, THEN we take into consideration what KIND of contraband it is, and reference what actions should be taken to match the severity of the contraband in question.

I feel like that damned puppet from the tick.. "READ A BOOK"

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you forgot to check the links I posted, which leads to minors getting arrested for taking nude pics of themselves. the Law needs tweaking. Also I still dont get how murder vids are legal while Child porn is not. I am watching an illegal act happening in both cases. Also if anyone never stood up to the goverment about retarded laws http://falkvinge.net/2012/09/11/child-porn-laws-arent-as-bad-as-you-think-theyre... Acta and SOPA would have gotten trough with no problems. just because someone says something is wrong and illegal doesnt mean it always will be. Actually it is now legal to watch Child porn in New York as long as you do not own said content. The fact you guys totally misread my posts because "gasp" he got another point of view therefor he must be a pedo and a pervert is getting old really fast.

It all boils down to censor laws in the end. and not about protecting your children. Protecting your children would mean legalizing cp so people can actually watch said material and help Police investigations without getting arrested for cp possesion. that some people then use it for their sexual enjoyment (instead of an actual child) can in my opinion only be seen as a good thing.

and as A closing note, no I do not support the making of Child porn nor the distribution. but I do suport the idea of not censoring info on the net which this is what it comes down to.

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Your ideas, in my opinion, are twisted and retarded as far as the concept of "legalizing CP".

And I am entirely uninterested in any talk about standing up about retarded laws, or SOPA, or any of the like, nor am I interested in the silly idea of minors being arrested for shooting images of themselves. We are talking about the subject of child pornography at its base, period. Uncloudable.

I don't know where you get your sources from as far as what is and is not legal.

This does not "boil down to censor laws". And I am uninterested in "helping police investigation".
And as my quote on "weed" shows, I do not synchronize what is right or wrong, with what is illegal or not. Child abuse being wrong is my personal opinion, and my personal opinion on that matter has not been presented, nor am I interested in discussing ~any~ opinions on the subject of whether child abuse is right or wrong.

What I am discussing here is what is legal and illegal. Period. The creation of child porn is illegal because it requires the abuse of a child. The consumption of child porn is illegal because it creates a demand that aids the creators in creating more child porn. Which leads to more child abuse.

This does not all come down to "censoring info on the net". It has nothing to do with that and you are either genuinely retarded, or attempting to skew and cloud the issue.
This all "comes down to" child abuse. Period. Legalizing Child porn in no way protects children, I'm just gonna say it, your retarded. To legalize child porn, you must also legalize the sexual act with said child, across the board. To legalize childporn is to greenlight a sudden spike of new children being abused for the purpose of participating in a very lucrative market that would then be...... Legal. And easy.

Your retarded. Yes it is a personal insult. No I don't care. How old are you again kid.
Linking to events where retarded things happen that shouldn't, do not take away from the issue at hand. There is an extenuating circumstance for every situation. I am not interested in how hard it is to report child porn without first downloading it. Your imagined slight is exactly that, imagined. Your grasp of how the law works is to the extend of just about every "furry" I have ever met in this fandom: Non-existent.

Filled with links, half baked information from googling, a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Pretty much like everything on "lulz.net"

My points in this matter are clear, and your skewing/clouding skills, whether deliberate or genuinely born of idiocy, are no match for my focusing skills. You have a better chance at beating me in streetfighter alpha, kid. negatory.

Child porn in real life is illegal to make and consume. The conduct of either contributes to the actual abuse of real life human children. THAT is why it is illegal. NOT because it is "gross".
It is a tandem branch of the legal age of sexual separation between child an adult. (For my country, that would be "18"). But I don't expect you to to truly understand that at its base or face. Absolutely nothing I say here will change what you say think and feel, you are either genuinely dumb, or more likely, you know exactly what I and others are saying, and know exactly what is right wrong and sideways, and either want to have or already have childporn in your possession, OR, don't like the idea of stepping back. Either way, your motives for saying what you say, are in question, and nothing you do can remedy this.
Thus, this text not so much for you, as it is for the benefit of the retards who are actually intent on learning something and becoming ~not~ retarded. Cue the star and rainbow.
This all sounds downlooking doesn't it? Well let me put the joking and insults aside for a sec to say something real: I believe that the person who makes sense, is not the person who believes I am right in an argument, or believes you are right in an argument. The person who makes sense, is someone who is doing their best to pay attention and learn the facts, doing the math for themselves and trying to their own conclusion of reason, showing the math behind it, and open mindedly interested in the math and conclusions that others have presented.

I have viewed your conclusion, and upon examining the math behind it, I have pointed out where it is flawed and presented my own math as to why it is flawed as such. Reference my "this all comes down to" paragraph.

CUB PORN, also called cub art, is not illegal, in most places. For the few places that do make it illegal? Reference my first post.

As for you F_F, there are some people who will believe what they want and tell themselves whatever they need to hear. If you truly believe what your saying? I suggest you actually educate yourself on the legal branches of this particular subject. This will help, whether you believe what you say due to retardedness, immaturity (literally, youth), or just thinking you know more than you actually do on the matter, it will still help.

And if you are merely saying what you say because you possess child porn at this time, or WANT to possess child porn at a future time, ("they need to legalize child porn so people can report it to police without being arrested for possessing it" = a 4 year old getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar and saying "i was gonna get the cookie for you!")

Then I suggest you don't get caught. Can't help you much else there.
If your pedo for furry cub art? great! So am I! And it is not illegal so enjoy it. I also enjoy old fogoey fetish (old skexi ladies and mrs. conductor from dinosaur train, and lorn shen and so on), curvy women, and a bunch of other fun fetishes that make me an eclectic person. ENJOY YOURSELF. But I hope your enjoyment does not involve actual real life child porn. If it does, not my business and I hope you don't get caught, and also, you should stoppit.

Want a closing note? here it comes bitches: I'M PEDO. I said it loud and clear on my FA, and here earlier, and I will say it again. Cassie the little pink dragon from dragon tales? fucking hot. Oh my god I would bend that bitch like a pretzel. Gilbert the little troodon from dinosaur train? I would hammer that little kraft macaroni and cheeze colored booty right into the cushy red sofa in the middle of the dining cart while everyone watches with jaws dropped. There gonna be sum FURNITURE MOVIN up in this mofo.

These are fictional characters, existing only as art, in 2d and 3d. And sexually fantasizing about them, is as harmful to society as fantasizing about batman coming to my bedroom and making sweet sweet love to me while I'm dressed like a catholic schoolgirl.

I am the night

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"The consumption of child porn is illegal because it creates a demand that aids the creators in creating more child porn. Which leads to more child abuse."

can you give me the link to the study that says this or is this your own perosnal belief? because other studies show the exact opposite http://phys.org/news/2010-11-legalizing-child-pornography-linked-sex.html

You call me and a retard and despite me bringing hard facts to the table you call it half baked information and ramblings of an Idiot. show me a study that back up your claims because until you do I will just assume youre talking out your ass. Everything I linked is relevant. remember were not talking about creating cp were talking about owning it. two very different things. Also the worst thing I have relating to the subject is Cub porn.

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"Consuming an illegal product creates a demand for it, aiding those who create the illegal product. Therefore, to help prevent the creation of the product, both the creator AND the consumer must be punished."

this is total bullshit btw.
If we were to follow this logic we would all be mass murderes, since theres endless murders caught on tape and shown in the news and on the internet thus creating a demand for it. And yes its the same thing. You will find people jacking off to this shit too.

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I love racing games and shooting games growing up. Among other genres.
Now that I'm a grown up, I build engines and race machines in real life:
http://s959.beta.photobucket.com/user/ganador13/media/DSC02134.jpg.html?sort=3&o=19
http://s959.beta.photobucket.com/user/ganador13/media/DSC02141.jpg.html?sort=3&o=14
http://s959.beta.photobucket.com/user/ganador13/media/DSC02034.jpg.html?sort=3&o=8
http://s959.beta.photobucket.com/user/ganador13/media/34.jpg.html?sort=3&o=32
http://s959.beta.photobucket.com/user/ganador13/media/DSC02140.jpg.html?sort=3&o=12
http://s959.beta.photobucket.com/user/ganador13/media/DSC02176.jpg.html?filters[user]=110963232&filters[recent]=1&filters[publicOnly]=1&sort=1&o=0

But I do not also go out shooting people in the streets. Whether I want to or not is not a subject, whether it is legal or not is at hand.

No it is not the same, and yes people can jack off to anything they like, as long as they don't do something illegal. And no videos on the news of any kind would not be shown if they were illegal to show. And the only thing you create demand for by watching news reports its... More news reports.

You are attempting to subscribe to the concept that "watching something that I enjoy in a video, will lead to me conducting the act in real life despite the act itself being illegal". Whether it does or not is not the concern of the legal system. The legal systems job is only to present punishment if you are stupid enough to choose: "it does"

The point that you just made, is again, retarded. You are not helping yourself kid.

GTFO

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I think the kid is you, since you seem to unable to make debate without insulting people. I actually given up on debating with any of you. I can provide endless links and you wouldnt care. The only thing you care about is your Cristian taught beliefs. So go ahead and put your heads in the sand and ignore the problems at hand because thats what you do. Also fuck you too.

this is my last post to any of you. if I respond to trolls anymore today ill end up like one myself smelly and with no opinion of my own.

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I was raised in the real world kid, before there was internet. We don't speak in links we speak in english. I didn't have spongebob for snarky bratty sarcasm onions (layers and layers of sarcasm till you just-dont-know-anymore).

I had power rangers. For men.

This has nothing to do with a study, it is factual law. Unlike you, I have quoted no "studies", I have only quoted what has been written as actual legal position. You seem misinformed on the difference.

What you consider relevant I consider... Look it is honestly semi-fun to participate in such a horrendously one sided fight while simultaneously educating more than one person at the same time with healthy information. But I am also starting to lose interest. In other words it is "also getting boring".

If you are that dense, try this: Stop googling for wiki pages that lead to peoples "arguments and research and conflicting beliefs". Start researching on what the law actually is and the history of why. Better yet, research the basic concept of supply and demand.
here, a link about tiger skins: http://www.savetigersnow.org/problem save them kittys.
Supply and demand form what is called a symbiotic circle, this was the reason it was decided over 200 years ago, that consumers of an illegal product should be punished along with the creators of an illegal product.

Here it is in its most basic form, in a language I hope you'll be able to process:
If you want to give child porn to people as you say to "lower their chances of actually abusing children", then you require actually having sex, with underage children, to create this child porn. Thus, children are abused.
Perhaps you believe it is ok because this way supposedly "less children are abused, only those abused for the purpose of making the ~nicotine patch~ films suggested"?
Childish but, perhaps you are something even more dangerous than childish: Ignorant.
Feeling unaffected because the childporn created, occurs in some far away magic land that is out of site out of mind. Like veal/tortured baby cow (a-la southpark).

The last thing I am is a "troll", except to the "trolls" themselves a.k.a. internet bullies. I do love "trolling" them. Calling me as such just because I both disagree and am grossed out by you, is childish but not as much so as some of your dangerous ideals.
And I am sure as hell not christian. Nor am I athiest. I simply just don't address the subject. Just because I think exposing a 6 year old kid to sex is wrong, doesn't make me christian.

And if you think I'm some sort of basement dwelling "troll", or smelly, think again.
But likely it was just words of self comfort. You obviously have some sort of analytical ability, therefore I;m sure you understand that not everyone on here is some sort of neckbearded weirdo, nor would you believe that everyone "out to get you" either.
Then again I cannot be sure, I have seen some presented ideas from you that I find rather disturbing in their lack of common sense.

You don't make sense. And That is perfectly ok with me. Because despite your being young, (and I'm sure you are, you really really are), your kind, are dying out. Becoming an endangered species. Like that scene in futurama, where all the young college kids were holding signs bouncing up and down happily supporting gay and robot marriage, while there were only 4 or 5 really old shriveled people across the street with their own signs protesting against it. I believe one or two of them were on the floor having a stroke at the time.

You are young, but your kind reproduces like pandas. So I am not worried. :)

Then again, you might just grow out of it or, in simple truth, learn more as years go by.

Your rating: None Average: 2.3 (6 votes)

Where's Penance the Succubus when you need her?

Your rating: None Average: 2.5 (6 votes)

Probably sitting back with a beer and smiling while reading all of this.

Your rating: None Average: 2.8 (6 votes)

Mizzyam is NOT a pedophile! Nor is he sexually attracted to human children. This whole fiasco is merely a self-destructive act. I have it on good authority that he is very depressed and full of self-loathing and committed these illegal actions as a way to justify his self-hatred and destroy himself.

Please do not paint him as a criminal when he is a victim of self-destruction and needs real help before he completely destroys his life. These discussions do him no good. They cause him MORE harm!

Your rating: None Average: 3 (5 votes)

wasn't privy to any of Mizzyam's confessions, but I was privy to the journal post his sister made. I recently commissioned Mizzyam actually, though I was aware of the artist's bouts of depression and motivation issues, so I had a realistic view that I may not see a return on it and treated the payment as a donation.

The journal was rather unsubtle about the reasons behind the absence. referring to his confessions, ban from computers, self loathing, and "rights as a human being" all built a pretty clear picture of the situation. Nevertheless, I read through comments to be sure. By the time I read the journal, comments were locked. others concluded what I had, though I didn't know I was right until I looked up the artist's real name on wikifur and googled it.

Like others, I knew that it was real cp and not the cub art that got him arrested, but I knew because of his history of depression and self hatred. Regardless of any of folks' views on Child Pornography, he obviously knew his interest was wrong and hated himself for it. I think Cub Art for a while went a long way to prevent him acting on his paraphilia. That's just speculation though.

The prevalence of pedophiles in the cub community is no more surprising than the prevalence of zoophiles in the furry community. I am lucky in that the things that draw me both to furry art and to cub art are not reproducible with animals or children respectively. in fact, I actually dislike children a great deal. I can keep it in my head or in drawings with ease.

Opinions and practices about sex with children have occurred throughout history. Time changes things and now we're in a time when it occurs in the shadows of society and anonymous face of the internet. Thinking trafficking the images of abuse should be legal is ignorant of the obvious demand legal ownership of such images creates. I despise the animal abuse bestiality makes, also even though it is not nearly as illegal to own images of that.

On the other paw, those who inherently have an attraction to underaged characters are scrutinized and hated for it, making it more difficult to seek help keeping oneself from abuse or encouraging images of abuse. in my personal unvalidated opinion, Cub artwork--explicit or otherwise--is an acceptable (and personally preferable) alternative to images of actual abuse.

Your rating: None Average: 2.8 (12 votes)

To those of you who know my brother and those who may not, I would like to clear the waters.

Mizzyam is NOT a pedophile!

He has been suffering for a long time with depression and a debilitating self-destructive streak. This whole CP fiasco is just one more way he has devised to destroy his life, and I'm afraid he may have succeeded this time. We are working hard to clear his name and get him the help he needs to get his life back on track.

I repeat: Mizzyam DOES NOT enjoy child pornography! He finds it sick and wrong! And is disgusted at himself for even pretending to like it. He WANTED to get caught, to destroy his life!

Please... don't let him destroy his life like this. Help protect his reputation by spreading the truth about this to those who would treat him like a filthy criminal.

I love my brother and don't wish to see him imprisoned for such a horrible mistake of judgement, nor have his life completely destroyed by this.

Your rating: None Average: 2.6 (5 votes)

Your brother will be in my prayers. I seen him on his destructive path for more than 3 years now and he has only gotten worse over time. I never though he would be so desperate to cry for help to only destroy himself the way he did.

I don't know why he feels that he is so alone in the world and he thinks to himself that he deserves to be alone. He tries to push everyone away from him and when people try and show he isn't alone. He tries to push them away by makeing himself look like a monster.

It is so strange. He gets angry when ever he isn't involved with anything, in school, playing games. He likes being involved and seems happy when he is. So why does he still try and push people away I don't know.

He seems to lost and confused, and very much just a child. I hope that he is finally getting the attention he needs because he doesn't deserve to be alone the way he thinks. And he needs to be shown that he doesn't have to try and fight his depression alone either. He still has allot of friends out there. I being one of them.

Your rating: None Average: 3 (2 votes)

I'm a little late here, but I have something to say:

Do you honestly expect anyone to believe that someone who draws cub porn would just so happen to download massive amounts of actual child pornography, something he finds disgusting, just so that he'd get arrested? Why didn't he rob a bank or do one of a million other things that he could've done to "destroy his life" without having to deal with something that disgusts him?

C'mon. You're deluding yourself. The truth may not be pleasant, but trying to convince yourself and others of something that you know damn well to be a lie will do more harm than good in the long run.

Your rating: None Average: 2.7 (3 votes)

So what you are basically saying is that anyone that enjoys cub porn/draws cub porn is automatically into child porn? That's like saying just because someone is into insect porn, they automatically want to have sex with they're sister. And you are also denying his medical condition that his own sister is pointing out? You don't know him. So do me a favor and shut up.

As for his sister, I would like to thank you for posting this. I didn't know the situation personally. I understand how depression is (I have clinical depression) and I am studying self-destructive disorders at the moment in Psychology.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (5 votes)

Yes, it would be weird if a guy who liked insect porn fucked his sister.

Unless his sister was like involved in a horrific teleporter accident or something ...

Your rating: None Average: 2.3 (3 votes)

From the looks of your post, perhaps you should take a break from psychological discussion and focus on things like logic and reading comprehension, because they seem like concepts that you have absolutely no grasp of.

Never once did I say that anybody who's into cub porn is also into child porn. While it's not much of a stretch to think that people who are into cub porn wouldn't be particularly disgusted by child porn, I'm sure plenty of people have the restraint not to look at it. I'm sure you're also into cub porn, which gives you incentive to deny any connection to pedophilia at all, but come on. If most anthro characters are intended to be representative of our adult selves, then what would that make cubs?

With regard to Mr. Shalapata: The part where it gets suspicious is where someone who's into cub porn claims to be totally disgusted by child porn, yet not only decides to download massive amounts of it so that he can get busted for it, but shares it all. Does that not sound just a little bit odd to you? Say all you want about self-destructive disorder. It doesn't include victimizing others, including innocent children, which sharing child pornography does.

As to his alleged medical condition: let's say a relative of yours gets busted for possession of child pornography. How would you feel about it? Would you be cool with everyone who knows you saying, "oh yeah, that guy's brother is a pedophile"? I doubt it. Don't get me wrong, I can't blame his sister for denying those allegations, but denial ultimately doesn't get you anywhere in life.

Xavier, let me be clear: I've no favor to offer you whatsoever. I'll say what I have to say, whether you like it or not. Got it?

Your rating: None Average: 5 (1 vote)

Well this makes sense with how's be been these past few years. I dunno what to say about it though.

I mean if he did this on purpose to screw his life away then the only way to clear his name is if he confess. A lot of furs can say they seen him in this self-loathing depressive state for a long time, but it sounds believable if you yourself said it, cause who to know better then flesh and blood that actually SEE this insane plan take place.

Sorry if this sounds like a lot of pressure or anything, but this is the only thing I see that can be done to at least get him out.

If it were me, I'd say to worry about that first, but yeah if I know where to look I'll spread the truth.

Your rating: None Average: 4.7 (7 votes)

I don't believe Mizzyam was arrested for the production of cub porn. If that was so, he'd have a much higher count for pornographic charges. I see many people apologizing on his behalf - please don't. Regardless of his depression issues, one always has a choice in the matter to abstain from consuming CP. Folks are not slaves to their desires, only as much as they allow themselves.

I pray he receives the rehabilitation necessary to quell his destructive urges in a safe, sane manner, but know too that what he did was unequivocally wrong, and that there is no spin to be had here. One cannot sympathize with someone who knowingly participated in such acts.

Your rating: None Average: 2.8 (12 votes)

Who would have fucking known a guy at Softpaw will eventually get bitchslapped with something like this?

Your rating: None Average: 2.5 (4 votes)

Attention Alfador (and everyone else for that matter): stick to singing the praises of Alex Reynard, not child porn.

Your rating: None Average: 1 (3 votes)

hahaha... deserves it.

"ruin my life line of bs" x3

theres plenty of ways to ruin you life, without getting convicted.

shoot yourself while blasting nirvana.

Strap on a bomb vest and walk into your local brony con, jk x3

steal a stick of gum and than assault someone with it.

steal a bottle of coca cola and ass chug it in the store.

x3

Naw but, I dunno if this whole line of "he wanted to ruin his life out of depression is valid" sorry if this is late :V

but I had to think of something amazing to say!

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Well I guess he'll be getting a visit from Penance anytime now.

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He's back guys

https://inkbunny.net/benjisquirrel

Your rating: None Average: 1 (1 vote)

I keep reading this because people keep commenting. Id like to further a few points.

1) Mizzyam obviously has control over himself. Do not defend him he had control over his actions and his ability to choose. He got caught with his pants down fapping to cp and in a bad attempt to get out of it he blamed 'depression' and boo hoo I wanted to 'screw up my life' both are cop outs in an attempt to get a victim stance with his accusers and make them feel pity for him.

2) I'd like to call bullshit on this entire thing. Who closes an account after spreading such incrediably attention gartering news. I bet you no money, that this whole thing was a cop out from comissions and because one of two things probably happened.

- he wanted to scam off money from a bunch of people.

- He got burned and made up a story to start anew again

-anon posted his new account so its obviously a cop out.

- he could have gotten expelled to the us and thus taking a deal for some sort of limited access on the net (not hard just have a friend install tor on a flashdrive and find a really really good fucking hiding spot and save your art programs onto it and such and wipe your hdd everytime and keep doing fresh windows installs, cable modem + modem even not knowing wifi password='s instant internet access)

Dats my two cents. if I think of more i'll reply to myself o:

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Looks like Benji Squirrell/ Mizzyam/ Amarimasi/ Michael Shalapata baleeted his new account on IB.
The user ScottyKat (https://inkbunny.net/scottykat) is trying to cover his ass http://i.imgur.com/zdvcFGw.jpg

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