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Opinion: 'Fursonas' is the film we need

Your rating: None Average: 3.6 (14 votes)

Fursonas If any of you readers are like me, then you only follow Flayrah when it comes to furry news. I saw an article shared around a year ago about furry music, and that's how I found this site.

But amidst the posts about cons being cancelled and the abundance of Zootopia reviews came a shining light no one saw coming. Mostly because even on a site about the very subject it is meant to educate on, it got no attention.

This film is Fursonas, a documentary about the furry lifestyle. A detailed look at the friendly fandom that CSI ruined public perception of all those years ago, such that we still feel repercussions today. It wasn't until my best bud crossaffliction mentioned this movie in, of course, a Zootopia-related post that I became aware of it. I started to dig, and realized what a gem we'd been missing.

Dogpatch Press (who I've now since started to follow alongside Flayrah) posted an incredible article on this film, which I suggest all members read, as this post is just to drum up hype for this film. One line from that article holds substantial water for me; Zootopia is the film we want, but Fursonas is the film we need.

This couldn't be more true. We got so lost in the sensationalism of a mass-marketed Disney flick made to sell toys that we overlooked something that could change our world forever. For as much as people toted Zootopia as the savior of the fandom, it seems we've been following a false prophet, whose mere existence is for profit. Fursonas took top honors at the Slamdance Film Festival, and was picked up for distribution; a major first for the fandom.

In a non furry way, it reminds me of some of those famous Internet conspiracies. Like when Miley Cyrus did her shtick at the MTV Video Awards a few years ago, and people were freaking out when at the same time Barack Obama introduced new bills that went nearly unreported by media. It seems kind of like that, but I want to give this film the attention it deserves.

The film has had major success and critical acclaim thus far; positive coverage in Variety and Deadline Hollywood have set it up for a good release. We need to be there for it when it comes out.

We have a movie made about us for the purpose of educating and correcting a mistake made over a decade ago. A movie about real furries should be shared with the entire fandom. For as much as we may love dancing tigers, they aren't going to stop people from thinking the way they do. That was a cartoon; this is a passion project. It's incredibly rare in today's world to have something made of sheer passion without corporate influence.

So I beg and implore you all; please see this movie. I know after seeing a certain Disney movie multiple times your wallets may be drained, but just try. This is a very significant movie directed by one of our own, Dominic Rodriguez, a.k.a. Video.

This could be the movie that parents see when they Google what it is their kids like, this could be the positive force to drive a new generation of furs when they go online to find out more. This is so important we can't quite grasp it at the moment since we're all already in the fandom. Start telling people you know about this movie, tell everyone. Build the hype!

Just see it!

I'm going to be doing a Q&A with the director and possibly documentary subject Boomer the Dog, so be sure to stay tuned for that. And feel free to comment any questions you may have about this movie.

See also: Interview: 'Fursonas' documentary director Dominic Rodriguez (Video the Wolf)

Comments

Your rating: None Average: 4.5 (2 votes)

Oh, sure I'd like to see it, but a majority of us furries don't live in Hollywood or Chicagoland.

And that's the problem. If I meet joe shmoe on the street, what are they going to know more about the movie Fursonas or Zootopia?

Obviously the answer would be the latter.

While good documentaries are needed, I think I've been trained at this point to have all doubts about any documentary surrounding the fandom if I haven't seen the thing for myself. While good documentaries are great, the issue would be this.

Only the educated care to see documentaries, and the educated are not the problem.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (1 vote)

Only the educated care to see documentaries, and the educated are not the problem.

I agree. And it's harder to convince Joe Schmoe to watch "an art documentary about people who like cartoon animals. What? No, they don't dress up and have sex" over "a Disney animated feature, with gorgeous visuals, and a message that's got quite the reality check. Oh, there's a lot of fans too, and they're making cool stuff".

One film like this, with its limited distribution and influence, isn't going to change the perception of furries as much as Zootopia would challenge all prejudices.

So Fursonas isn't the film we need, but it could be the film we want. Positive coverage for furries are hard to come by, and this is something we can show people who are already curious about furries. (Though the film being directed by "one of our own" might muddle the message a bit.) We should encourage more movies like this, starting by seeing it when it comes out. If you like it, let your friends know.

Your rating: None Average: 4.8 (5 votes)

"Oh, you're a furry?"
"Well, yeah."
"So that means you have a fursona, dress up, and pretend you're an animal?"
"Errr... no, I just draw pictures and show people on the Internet."
"Really? But I saw that documentary, and it said... "

Surely, this documentary is something we NEED. It will save the fandom, make it better, and possibly cure spring allergies.

Please downvote this post, since I am being a Negative Nancy (and being negative is a serious crime in 1984... I mean 2016)

Well, I'll be...

Your rating: None Average: 5 (1 vote)

Funny, I've been thinking something similar about Zootopia. One film, no matter how good, isn't going to lead the fandom into a new golden age on its own. But it can still make a difference, and maybe that's all we can ask for.

Your rating: None Average: 4 (1 vote)

Yeah, I'm already getting non-fan questions about "that Disney-inspired furry fandom".

Fred Patten

Your rating: None Average: 5 (2 votes)

For the record, I did notice Fursonas - it got a newsbyte. But I didn't write much about it because I hadn't seen it.
As Sonious notes, we can't all get to Slamdance - and given past examples, it can be best not to raise your hopes too high.

Of the other documentaries in recent years, Fanboy Confessional, Furries – an inside look, Furrytale and A Tail of Identity spring to mind as worthwhile projects. They've tended more positive recently, though there are some bright spots even if you go way back. While CSI is better-classed as entertainment, I've run into numerous people who joined the fandom as a result.

Each work adds its own perspective, and some of the more detailed reviews suggest the thrust of Fursonas turns to how "a group defined by its love of non-conformity [wrestles] with issues of the individual vs. the collective", with particular reference to Anthrocon and its leadership. This is a topic worth talking about – but I hope such coverage is not one-sided. No fan is a caricature, even if our positions bear discussion.

Your rating: None

Thanks for going over it; I was in a hurry, since I was the one who encouraged her (though I was asking for something more like Fred's article on the top of the page), I didn't want her to wait, but, uh, ironically, Zootopia was starting at 10:10. So it was kind of a rush job.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (1 vote)

- Thanks for noticing the Dogpatch article :) Half the writing credit goes to Pup Matthias, AKA David from Bookworm Reviews.

- Fursonas isn't a general introduction, positive-PR, be-all-end-all kind of documentary. As Greenreaper mentioned, there have been a lot of attempts like that... I feel none of them have gotten critical notice like this one because that's kind of generic, didactic and bland. (Well, to the point that a somewhat outre subculture is.)

This one, on the other hand, strives to be raw and real, according to the director. That's the stock in trade for Slamdance. (OK, I haven't seen it yet, just repeating secondhand what's in it.) It doesn't peddle stereotype but doesn't look away from them either.

- That's gotten a fair amount of people all hot under the collar... like, because it includes Boomer (who I've never had a problem with. Rock on you crazy dog.)

They complain about "representing the fandom" wrong. But it doesn't represent fanDOM, it represents individual fans. There isn't a wrong way to tell your own story in your own words, if you aren't lying! It's not THE furry story, it's A furry story.

Nevertheless, they object to that and extra objected to me calling it more important than Zootopia, which of course was just a hypeful clickybaity title that isn't serious because they're two different kind of movies that just happen to both be called "furry".

- There's nothing really wrong with wanting and needing different movies... this one's nonfiction, the other's the kind of fantasy thing most furs love. Nothing wrong with that. Without animation budgets, they'd have to enjoy mental movies.

- One of those objectors seems to be Kage. I think he put a fatwah on Boomer to prevent indirect association with AC. So, it's interesting what came out in comments to the article followup...

One of the movies tags was "whistleblower", and I'm guessing it makes unflattering portrayal about Kage's style of manipulating furry PR. So the movie itself ran into what appears to be suspicious blacklisting.

Anyhow, I can't wait to see it.

Your rating: None Average: 4.8 (4 votes)

"- One of those objectors seems to be Kage. I think he put a fatwah on Boomer because he can be indirectly associated with AC. So, it's interesting what came out in comments to the article followup..."

That's one of the things I don't like about Kage. I saw him at EF21 and briefly spoke to him in and out of panels but 1) He seemed very dismissive and disrespectful of other furs and 2) despite his "furry is whatever you want" attitude to definitions he was very clear that he doesn't consider Boomer a fur and actively tried to break any connection between the two.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

Your rating: None Average: 4 (2 votes)

I have really appreciated Kage's attention to interview requests I send. I really like what he's done with Anthrocon. Getting that parade on the street in cooperation with the city was another one of those unprecedented "furry milestones" - like this movie. There has been a really impressive and escalating amount of those recently.... well, it is "The Year of Furry!"

Yes I think that attitude towards Boomer is one of the focal points of this movie. Video (director) says that he was initially wary of Boomer but was won over, and Boomer has a deep grasp on furry history and being one. It is dogmatic to deny that. Sounds like a dialectical story.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (1 vote)

It should be noted that Kage by himself can't issue a ban. That requires and act by the AC board. Kage stated this in a video so it's not something that's secret or anything. Obviously, somebody who's banned can give any story they want since the AC board isn't going to discuss such actions with third parties.

Your rating: None Average: 3.3 (3 votes)

The Variety article you linked too (which you had incorrectly linked under The Hollywood Reporter, which ... was actually the most upsetting thing about your article for me; I'm a Variety fan) basically boils down to "needs more fursuit raves; also, that Kage guy seems like a dick."

Your rating: None Average: 4 (1 vote)

I checked that link now. That paragraph on Kage was so fun to read.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

Your rating: None

Also, the guy totally not getting his costume was kind of funny.

Your rating: None Average: 4 (1 vote)

Woohoo! I brought people in and got a shout out.

I also read the Dogpath Press but, like GreenReaper, I haven't seen the documentary itself. Looking here and on Dogpatch Press now, it doesn't seem like there's a trailer or anything either. If I get the opportunity, I'll watch it but at the moment it's just something I've heard of.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

Your rating: None Average: 5 (1 vote)

Don't worry, you'll have access soon :) It's supposed to be on video on demand this summer, like Netflix or Amazon or whatever.

Your rating: None Average: 4.5 (2 votes)

I've seen a spotlight interview with the creators, a brief clip of the actual show, and an interview in Pittsburgh City Paper.

Your rating: None Average: 4.3 (3 votes)

I liked furry fandom more when it wasn't just about fursuiting.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (2 votes)

How is that true, when Zootopia is the biggest thing in furry fandom right now?

It isn't a fandom product, but it's also something they take for themselves in their own way... there might be some very arms-length marketing hapening, but that doesn't give Disney a say in how the furs organize their hugely popular meets. Unless they're just doing it to get paid in posters. :)

Your rating: None Average: 3 (1 vote)

This isn't an article about Zootopia. If I showed someone this Fursonas film, what would they think furry fandom was about?

Your rating: None Average: 4 (1 vote)

Well to be fair, if Fursonas does have Kage as a 'pseudo-antagonist', they'll clearly see that fursuiting is not every furry's bag.

Then again if he's the 'pseudo-antagonist'... that may be worse then not have non-fursuiters at all (Fursuiter=good, nonsuiters = bad)

Your rating: None

You appear to be assuming that his lab suit is the only suit he wears (and that, too, is a character costume).

Your rating: None Average: 4 (1 vote)

In the context of the film it is, quote from the Variety review:

"An Uncle Kage who chairs/organizes Anthrocon (not in a furry suit, oddly, but in “Mr. Scientist” garb)"

Why would the reviewer say "oddly" if it is not an unusual thing in the film to see furries outside of fursuits? It seems Kage is seen as exceptional by the reviewer in this regard.

It seems that the review themselves see that "Furrys sans fursuit is odd". Which is pretty indicative that the documentary covers non-suiters in any regard.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (1 vote)

Yes. Also, "Uncle Kage" is widely known in furry fandom to be Dr. Samuel C. Conway, Ph.D. in real life, a doctor from Dartmouth College employed as an industrial chemist with a couple of patents. He comes by the white lab smock legitimately. So to refer to him as "An Uncle Kage [...] in 'Mr. Scientist' garb" seems to deliberately belittle him, implying that he does not have a legitimate right to wear the lab smock. This seems consistent with the tone of the whole "Variety" review, which generally belittles all furry fandom, implying that none of them are worthy of respect.

Fred Patten

Your rating: None Average: 5 (1 vote)

It's definitely a garb. Why would somebody wear a lab coat outside a laboratory?

This isn't to say Variety article didn't ignore the fact that Dr. Conway is a bona fide chemical scientist, nor that the omission of the fact didn't give a misleading impression.

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See that's the question though, did the documentary present this information to the viewer? And if it didn't can we really criticize the viewer for not knowing what wasn't presented?

Your rating: None Average: 2 (1 vote)

And the Variety article notes, basically, that the reviewer doesn't know jack about furry, but, on the other hand, he's watching a documentary purporting to explain furry to him, and it's, well, not.

So, no, he doesn't know who Uncle Kage is; that's the point.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (2 votes)

I guess Kage's just going to have to start wearing around an "I have a PHD" shirt, just to be safe.

Your rating: None Average: 4 (1 vote)

Like that hat which says

Gilgemesh
Wulfenbach

schmoot guy!

Your rating: None Average: 5 (2 votes)

This isn't an article about Zootopia. If I showed someone this Fursonas film, what would they think furry fandom was about?

There's SEVEN articles about Zootopia on the front page. There's never been an event in furry fandom history that had SEVEN articles in a row like that, and then there's all the mainstream media shouting about furry Zootopia love.

This is just one whisper about how everyone overlooked a big milestone in fandom history.

Show me someone who saw Fursonas and had no idea that Zootopia was happening and furries like it, and I'll show you an alien who just touched down on planet earth.

Come on, dude, the competition you're suggesting doesn't exist. It so doesn't exist, that people got extremely offended at me for forcing a harmless "furry movie" comparison in a headline to get people's attention to the overlooked one.

Fursuits are cinematic, deal with it. Books are best portrayed with... books. Also you can't hug a book or game or art commission. Also with a media-saturated landscape where marketing and budgets crush little indie-spirit projects, live spectacle has major advantage for fan-level activities. Bring on the fursuits.

Your rating: None Average: 2.7 (3 votes)

I'm not sure "cinematic" is what you meant; you can't hug a movie scene. Better way to put it is they're like the mascot at a ballgame; their job is to garner the attention of a crowd of thousands that have paid good money not to watch them.

Setting aside Zootopia for a minute, furry art (of which I hear nobody mentioning anything about when talking about Fursonas) is also often a very attention getting visual. Yes, fursuiting is a great visual; but it's not the only great visual in furry. Yes, drawings of cartoon animals are not limited to furry fandom, as Zootopia illustrates; but neither is the wearing of giant animal costumes, as my sports mascot comparison points out.

So, it is getting a bit frustrating fursuiting gets all of the mainstream coverage, even when the guy doing the coverage is himself a furry, and should know better. If the guy's documentary was just about fursuiting, that's fine and dandy, but he's clearly trying to make some sort of definitive statement about all of furry (even if that statement is "there is not a definitive statement"). If he's going to spend an inordinate time on Uncle Kage bitching about "That's not my furry!", while leaving mainstream reviewers going "what is he wearing? That's not a fursuit!", maybe he could find time to throw in a thirty second montage of Blotch paintings (make them book covers, and you bring in another important, but mainstream media coverage poor, aspect).

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Long on assumptions, short on facts. I was just told about insecurities of the critic rather than about the movie.

How do you know it doesn't have 30 seconds of Blotch art? If it does, getting copyright for that is complicated. A lot of TV and movies consciously avoid showing visual art even though they want to. Meanwhile, showing footage of fursuiters at Anthrocon is covered by implied general release. They put up flyers advising you of that.

The director and people on screen did commission fursona art to show in the movie, I even put it in my article. If it's not in other reviews, you know what they say about the worth of pictures vs. words.

The director does have words for himself about his creator intent. It's not just about visuals, it's also about passion. I have no sympathy for misery about how fursuits are expensive. People who are passionate make their own - like, Boomer. Passionate people make great movie subjects.

Flat visual art is attention getting - in flat visual art. That's one frame of a time-based medium. That gives power to live performance. And when it's for personal stories (which the title implies) you have to pick a certain focus. This isn't a dry textbook overview from a mile high.

It makes me sick of complaining about how things aren't about other things, instead what it's about. More assumptions: please show where the director said this is supposed to be "definitive" or about "all of furry?"

Take rock and roll as it's own subculture. Album art is a big part of it. But pick a movie about rock and roll and tell me there's something wrong with it for focusing on other things besides art. It doesn't have to be about just music performance either. There's as many or more movies about record collecting as rock graphic artists.

Or maybe the movie is also neglectful of books because it doesn't show the amazing act of typing. But really, it's up to writers to put their stuff out in books, and artists to make art. Movie makers make movies - time based media, where focus on actors and costuming makes sense.

If people want a movie about something other than what this movie is about, make it. That's the base of everything in fandom. It's not even hard, plenty of people have already done it. This is the one that clicked, that's a clue about what works.

Now I'm getting requests to showcase a furry youtube show that consciously avoids fursuits. The complaint is that after 7 seasons, viewership reached a modest plateau and they see no way forward. I don't either, it's plenty of content standing on it's own.

Your rating: None Average: 2 (1 vote)

I'm pretty okay with the fursuiting thing, though it's obviously not my thing. It's not fursuiting I'm against, it's the whole having to constantly explain not only do not all furries fursuit, I don't, so ... please stop asking me to see it, non-furries, or what I'm getting it. No, I'm not being shy. The fursuit thing isn't happening!

I said the director's definitive statement is that there is not definitive statement, which at the time seemed a more clever way to say the director wasn't making a definitive statement than just saying the director wasn't making a definitive statement.

Also, let's not fight, we've got bigger fish to fry; can't help but think the timing on [a][s]'s top story isn't, well, fishy .

Your rating: None Average: 4 (1 vote)

Fursuiting does has inherent disadvantages in some regards though, as I've come to find after obtaining one. Essentially you're not only going to have to go through the expense of obtaining one, but the expense of flying it around to any convention you go to (if you're not fortuneate enough to be in driving distance).

Fursuiting is an expensive hobby, and a lot of people who are not so financially well off.

For those who can't afford it, I can see where resentments can come into play from someone in it sucking the air out of the room. Like that dude with a Ferrari driving up on the curve. Especially if the person is acting all high and mighty because they have it, while others are driving their Fords.

Your rating: None Average: 2.3 (3 votes)

It's also frustrating for people who don't care about what kind of car you drive; you want to be genuinely happy for the guy driving a Ferrari, but you kind of get a bit tired of people not only ignoring your bitchin' van art that you worked so hard on, but everyone asking you when you're getting your Ferrari, as well.

Your rating: None Average: 2.8 (5 votes)

Zootopia isn't part of furry fandom. It is a thing that furry fans like.

Fursonas presents fursuiting as "this is what furry fans do", and to a large extent it is right. We have been moving towards fursuiting being the end-game of being a furry fan for years now. Zootopia doesn't change that.

Your rating: None Average: 3 (2 votes)

Omg what you said about Zootopia, I wanna get a shirt with that on it. Seriously. Spit the truth and comment here more.

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Proud Staffer of VancouFur 2017~

Your rating: None Average: 4.3 (3 votes)

But how are we going to get more things that we like if none it is made in the first place, Cassidy?

Here's the Fursonas/Zootopia divide, and, yes, there is one, sorry, Patch, you meant it mostly as a joke, but it's funny 'cause it's true, and if we're going to do this, we might as well do this. It's about what "furry" you're selling.

If you're like me, furry is a "genre," or what [a][s] calls an "aesthetic," or, in a nutshell, an artform. If I want to sell something to the mainstream, it's that; Zootopia is important because I can point at it and say, "Look, here's an example of something that, for all intents and purposes, is indistinguishable from what I want to sell you, and it is both widely appreciated as a good example of its medium, and, more importantly, it's making a shit ton of money!" And this is important to you, Cassidy; you keep telling us "you're making a movie" after all. It's kind of hard to sell a movie if you can't convince anyone there's a market for it. Jesus Christ, there are message boards full of people who don't know FurAffinity or e621 exists going "Man, great movie, but that fox and bunny totally should have done it." Well, if you want hot, hot fox on bunny action, man, step right up!

If you're like you, furry is a "fandom" or a "subculture" or, in a nutshell, a group of people. And, I'm sorry, that's a hard sell, Cassidy. I've been watching this space for a while now, and it's just not working. Nobody cares about us, Cassidy; they only care about what we do. And telling people we're "really nice and creative" doesn't tell them that. Telling people what we don't do doesn't tell them that, either. And then you have to tell people, to be honest, some furries do do that, actually, and the whole thing breaks down in confusion. Besides, why are we trying to sell Boomer the Dog, who I'm sure is totally a great guy and all, when the freaking documentary points out that a lot of furries don't even like him. So why the hell should a non-furry like him?

Furries don't get into furry to watch documentaries, Cassidy; if they did, they'd actually attend Slamdance instead of Anthrocon. You yourself are excited about Rock Dog; it's in your freaking signature. Last time I checked, not a documentary!

Also, stop with the "Zootopia savior" line; if you'd actually paid attention, the first announcement of the movie on Flayrah mostly consists of Fred casting shade on Disney for pretending this is their first anthro animal movie, and the second is me making fun of its cliched buddy cop premise.

I may have posted a lot of Zootopia articles last year, but people liked them. They got five star votes; they got retweets and likes on Twitter; they got comments. As an editor, I've got a little app thingy in the corner of my browser showing the number of viewers on Flayrah right now; we've rarely been over thirty distinct browsers at a time. Since those seven Zootopia articles, however, we've rarely been under a hundred! Which is still pretty pitiful, but, you know, big for us! Does that "save" the fandom? Better question; what the hell does that mean? Best question; who cares?

I'm not a furry because I like watching documentaries; I am a furry because I like watching cartoons about animals. That's why Zootopia is important.

Final thoughts; that's what that feels like, Cassidy, and also, lay off the president, Canadian.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (1 vote)

Yeah Zootopia type stuff gets the ball rolling but people don't get into furry to watch documentaries? No, I think it's more a way to let people know we're not all sexual deviants. I've said that.

My parents watched CSI back in the day. So I don't know what happened with them taking me so well, but it would've been great if I had been able to explain it a bit better. Or for them to google it and find something as informative as this.

Entire message boards eh? My friend just told me yesterday he was bummed there was no porn of Shima from Planet Dolan and I had be like... "Just Google it dude..." XP

What the hell does Rock Dog have to do with documentaries? XD

Yes I'm also making a movie, but even though it's early, if I were to say how I'd market it in terms of Zootopia comparisons, I probably wouldn't mention the furry part in the trailer. I'd probably keep the trailer showing the situation where the characters are without any kind of resolve. So people could see the conflict and take the movie a bit seriously. Even though it would be animated, I would showcase the anthro characters for the story, not for the sake of being anthro. XP
I'm also not trying to make a furry action movie, but an action movie that happens to portray furries in a positive light. XP

Hey I'm a furry for the some reason bruv, but I just don't like it being marketed to us so shamelessly. XP

Woah interesting final thoughts. I'm a big supporter of Canada leaving the British Commonwealth, so yeah.

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Proud Staffer of VancouFur 2017~

Your rating: None Average: 3.5 (2 votes)

Cassidy, I browse for furry porn on e621 sometimes. I am a sexual deviant. Who cares? You're an asexual. You're a sexual deviant (in that you deviate from the "norms" of sexuality)! Welcome to the club! You're the teenager; aren't you supposed to be telling me you don't give a damn about your reputation?

Also, I wish they'd have marketed even more shamelessly to us; it's been over a decade for me, and this is the first time it's happened. I've done this bit before, but, you guys, it turns out this pandering stuff is really awesome!

But I'm not talking about marketing your movie to audiences; I'm talking about distributors who will show your movie to people. I'm talking about investors and studios and so on and so forth who give you the money so you can make the movie. And those people don't care if you're a sexual deviant if you can convince them you will make them money. They didn't go after Bill Cosby for way worse crimes than "may draw porn of characters on the side" until he was retired, after all. You think that was a coincidence?

Also, Cassidy, I don't care about your funny little country, because I'm AN AMERICAN! And not caring about things is what we do ... oh, I begin to see a problem, here.

Your rating: None Average: 4 (1 vote)

Well I was only talking in terms of parents of kids who wanna get into it. A 20 something person doesn't care, but a 14 year old would be terrified if their parents saw that. XP

Pandering can be fun, maybe Rock Dog will do that! >:3

I honestly am not sure how it'll go, or how I'll start. First thing I Want is character concept art, then maybe a script, then I dunno. I could pitch it to a studio but I don't know if I want another CG animated movie. The only other two options are Stop motion like my fave film ever, or the now seemingly extinct hand drawn. I just won't know what I want until I see the characters I have in my mind in some sort of medium. XP
And honestly, why not just Kickstart it like Anomalisa? :3
If you do manage to raise money on Kickstarter, isn't that evidence enough then that the film is gonna make money? I mean, Anomalisa didn't but it was niche as it was.

Heh. Silly American fox. I'll just sit up here and enjoy our mild summers, the free healthcare and our shit dollar. Maybe if you feel the bern you'll see things more clearly eh? >:3

In other news, I've been talking with the distributor of Rock Dog, maybe I'll get more involved in their marketing :D

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Proud Staffer of VancouFur 2017~

Your rating: None

Well, seriously, how is Rock Dog coming along? I've been speculating darkly about Chinese censors, myself (if we're going to throw stones at foreign powers).

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Honestly I would be harassing the director a lot more if he wasn't the only person in the world without any social media. So I've only talked with one of the companies involved.

Rock Dog is based on a Chinese book so I'm not sure how much China will limit. They want it to make money in other regions so I think they're going to be surprisingly lenient with it. Considering all the western metaphors already present in the trailer. I think it'll be fine and is going well, but I'm still digging to find out why it didn't come remotely close to hitting it's projected October 2015 release date.

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Proud Staffer of VancouFur 2017~

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The Chinese government can let it be shown throughout the world except in Tibet (or released in China at all to play safe), and earn lots of money without stirring up anyone in Tibet.

What is the Chinese book it's based upon? It sounds like that might be more dangerous to the Chinese government if it's already been released. Is there an English edition? (Or French or Spanish; the other two languages that I can read.)

Fred Patten

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It was supposed to come out first in China, then the West but that seems to have changed. Since it was called Tibetan Rock Dog when it was a book.

It's based on the Chinese Graphic Novel 'Tibetan Rock Dog' by Zheng Jun. It's actually Zheng that launched Mandoo pictures, the company that is making the film. On Cartoon Brew they say this:
The film is based on the popular Chinese graphic novel Tibetan Rock Dog written and illustrated by Zheng Jun, who was also one of China’s first major rockstars in the mid-1990s. Zheng envisioned turning his comic into an animated feature that would “introduce cross-cultural values and philosophies,” which led him to launch Mandoo Pictures with producer Amber Wang, tech entrepreneur Deng Feng, and venture capitalist Xu Xiaoping. (Mandoo is the reverse of the two-syllable Chinese word for animation.)

I'm not sure what the film will end up being about, but so far it doesn't look like something China will like. Having a character desire to be something big after being exposed to Western media might be a hard sell for the government there.

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Proud Staffer of VancouFur 2017~

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Thanks. I found out that the "novel" is actually a graphic novel, “Tibetan Rock Dog”, by Zheng Jun, a Chinese alternative rock singer & songwriter. He’s chosen the European name Michael for dealing with the West. An extensive online biographical page lists his musical performances and CDs. His only book listed is the November 2005 “Vegetables Sword Warming”, published by the Jiangsu Literary Publishing Company.

But a 2009 online press release by the Danwei Chinese media, advertising and urban life company says (with lots of illustrations that don't copy here):

Rock star Zheng Jun has come out with a graphic novel,Tibetan Rock Dog, that combines his three loves: cartoons, animals, and music.

The story unfolds in Tibet, where a Tibetan mastiff named Metal grows up in a Buddhist temple after his parents and siblings die protecting a peasant family. His grandfather, who learned the secrets of walking upright and speaking human language, trains him in canine meditation and teaches him about his ancient enemy, the Tibetan wolf. A rock musician on a pilgrimage adopts Metal as a son and takes him back to Beijing.

The city is a fabulous new world for Metal: in Beijing, dogs walk upright and have a secret underground realm of their own. He forms a rock band with the friends he meets at obedience school:

• Metal (麦头) as lead singer;
• Lead guitar Zorro (佐罗), a short-haired, heavily-inked Great Dane whose master owns a tattoo parlor;
• On keyboards is iKey, a Labrador. His master started an IT company when he came back from America, so he's obsessed with the Internet;
• On drums is Vasily (瓦西里), a rottweiler from a martial arts family;
• On bass is Wangcai (旺财), a St. Bernard from a Korean barbecue who became a vegetarian after customers attempted to buy and eat him when the restaurant ran out of beef;
• Dingding (丁丁), a schnauzer whose master is a crosstalk performer, acts as manager;
• And a golden retriever named Vivian (薇薇安), who is Metal's girlfriend.

But the big city isn't a paradise: his girlfriend's father doesn't approve of Metal, and when his band, Rockdog, hits it big, he runs afoul of a gang of hip-hop wolf hounds who resent his success. Will he be able to prove that rock music is a worthy pursuit for a dog? Can he save his girlfriend from the clutches of the evil rap artists? Will success come in time to pay for his master's hospital bill and save his club?

Tibetanized Chinese on the cover of Tibetan Rock Dog

The answers to these questions will come as no surprise, but setting the story in a hidden canine empire is inspired, the art is full of puns and pop-culture references, and the extended fight sequence that takes up half of the second volume is fairly entertaining.

Zheng Jun, who's credited with the characters and overall supervision of Tibetan Rock Dog, has revealed that a film version is in the works — something like Kung Fu Panda (not a knock-off, since he came up with Metal and friends four years ago). He might also come out with a prequel or a sequel to the graphic novel.

The current story fills 340 pages split between two volumes and was written for kids of all ages, as Zheng explains in the preface:

A friend of mine once said that Chinese children have no childhood. They spend their childhood doing child labor, and are busier than their parents. Children have few opportunities to tell children's stories, and they rarely dare to dream. His words are a little absolute, but they're not without merit.

What's strange is that I discovered one day that adults in China have the opportunity to enjoy the storied benefits of childhood. As masters of our own lives, we are fully able to give ourselves the decent childhood we missed, a deluxe childhood that a healthy, happy individual ought to have. Of course, no one necessarily knows what a deluxe childhood ought to be. I know a few young women who insist on sucking their water out of baby bottles, and who go to sleep hugging Hello Kitty. This seems to miss the point, but a return to youth is always a good thing.

I finally had a deluxe childhood after I became a father. Or perhaps it would be better to say that I took over my daughter's childhood, but at any rate I was excited and overjoyed to have it. I discovered that enjoying childhood as an adult feels much better than enjoying adulthood as a child. Having a childlike-heart makes you feel happy all over. The two of us raised dogs — big ones — watched cartoons, told stories, read comics, and played with toys. I even tried to work my way into her circle of friends, but I was turned away. Things finally got better after I wrote a theme song for the Kaku TV station, and discovered a language we all share: cartoons, animals, and music. I like animals — I love dogs — and I love cartoons and music.

And it's a language that crosses national boundaries. From an interview with QQ:

Wang Ke: In addition to having a good story, the book seems pretty commercial. People who like dogs will want to read it, as will music lovers. And adults may want to read it too. You've also mentioned that you may bring out foreign language editions. In my opinion, reading this book would be a good way for foreigners to gain a deeper understanding of Chinese culture.

Zheng Jun: The story is set in two different locations. First, there's the background story of him growing up in Tibet, and then there's the process of him realizing his dream after he gets to Beijing. These two things will appeal to foreigners, I think. How a Tibetan mastiff makes music in Beijing and, together with a group of other dogs, finally succeeds in his aims. Heavenly Mastiff Yoga, a form handed down from ancient times by Tibetan mastiffs, at its highest levels can enable a dog to speak human language and play an instrument.

This is not the first nod toward Tibet in Zheng's work. One of his famous early songs was "Return to Lhasa" (回到拉萨).

Links and Sources
• QQ (Chinese): Excerpts, interview with Zheng Jun
• Sina (Chinese): Interview with Zheng Jun
• Sina book news (Chinese): Singer Zheng Jun's first cartoon effort
• Tibetan Rock Dog Official Website
• CRI: The Dog Rocks in Motion Picture

http://www.danwei.org/books/zheng_juns_tibetan_rock_dog.php

Fred Patten

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If Zhang Jun has illustrated this graphic novel as well as writing it, he must be an accomplished artist as well as a musician. Anyway, it doesn't sound like there are any English, French, or Spanish editions of it yet. 340 pages in two volumes, hm? Would Sofawolf Press or FurPlanet Productions be interested?

And we've totally gotten away from "Fursonas".

Fred Patten

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Well I was only talking in terms of parents of kids who wanna get into it. A 20 something person doesn't care, but a 14 year old would be terrified if their parents saw that. XP

I don't think a parent concerned about the group(s) their kids are hanging out with are going to look to a documentary purporting to be about the group, they're going to look to the literal people the kid is associating with, and at that point, it doesn't matter if you're a "sexual deviant" or not, it matters how you purport yourself around literal children. And if furries are sharing, discussing, or making accessible furry porn etc to kids, and the response of furries is to make documentaries about how we're "not all like that" instead of condemning people who aren't safe around children, nothing can save us.

We don't need documentaries, we need better communities.

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Does the fandom need saving?

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From itself, perhaps! Of course, some might say we'd have to destroy the fandom to save it.

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"We have been moving towards fursuiting being the end-game of being a furry fan for years now"

I disagree. But statistics from the Anthropomorphic Research Project might be able to prove / disprove that. Whether older furries enjoy fursuiting more than other furry activities.

Fursuiting is a drop on the bucket on what furry fans do.

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Back about 2008, give or take a year, I first ran the numbers on fursuit parade participation as a percentage of convention attendance. At the time the results ranged from 13% to 19%. Doing the same thing now the figures range from 18% to over 30%. So there is definitely an upward trend there.

I wonder how many furry fans today are aware that in the early days of Confurence, full-body costumes (the term 'fursuit' hadn't been coined yet) were a niche interest, with art being at the center of the fandom.

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Well I'm glad it's something people like. I just don't agree with the statement "it's the end-game of being a furry fan". In fact, I remember Courtney "Nuka" Plante saying (I believe was at Texas Furry Fiesta 2012): about 10% of furries have no interest in fursuits and know they will never want one.

As for me, if money was no limitation, I could see myself spending $1000 on a lot of other furry stuff before acquiring a fursuit.

Maybe it will be, the "end-game", if the trend you mention continues? I don't think it is now, however.

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My sister Sherry, who is not a "fan", is a "Minions" freak. She has bought dozens of "Minions" T-shirts, towels, place mats, bubble baths, pens, flashlights, wastebaskets, dishes, TicTacs, comic books, framed "King Bob" pictures, ... If it exists, she's buying it; and it probably does exist because Illumination or whoever is merchandising "Minions" more than anyone could reasonably believe; and to the adult public, not just to kids.

Is Disney merchandising "Zootopia" to a similar degree? So far, I haven't seen it in more than the usual for Disney juvenile books. I haven't seen it all over the stores. Sherry enjoyed the movie but she's not a "Zootopia" freak to the same degree that she's a"Minions" freak. Even so, she says that she hasn't seen that much "Zootopia"merchandise in the stores to be bought.

Is Disney's merchandising department not on the ball? That's not believable. Is "Zootopia" merchandise being sold exclusively at Disneyland, Disneyworld, the Disney stores, and not "everywhere"? That's not believable, either. What is believable is that Disney doesn't think that stuff featuring Judy Hopps, Nick Wilde, the DMV sloths, etc, will sell to the general American public the way that "Minions" stuff will.

This means (as I see it) that corporate Disney may have targeted furry fandom for some extra ticket sales to the movie, but it doesn't think that there's a sufficient "Zootopia" market, or that there are enough furry fans among the general public, to churn out the "Zootopia" merchandise. The store buyers who are pushing all the "Minions" stuff for their sales aren't asking for any "Zootopia" stuff. "Zootopia" may be a hit animated movie among the general public for adults and children alike, but in the end, it's just a popular movie to be replaced by the next popular movie. Not the cultural milestone that furry fans wish that it'd be. Surely, we furry fans can look forward to more "Zootopia" sequels in a TV series, original DVDs, and maybe even a "Zootopia 2" theatrical feature, but all that just means that "Zootopia" is a really popular movie -- not the cultural phenomenon that, say, "My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic" is.

Are any furry fans or the general public starting to write "Zootopia" fan fiction? Are there "Zootopia" fan conventions like there are "MLP:FIM" conventions? Will a "Zootopia" fandom similar to the Bronies develop? I doubt it, and apparently corporate Disney doesn't think so, either. So although "Zootopia" may end up responsible for a few more furry fans, it won't get furry fandom recognized by the general public. It's already getting furmeets noticed by the public as, "Hey, you guys must be really Disney/'Zootopia' fans!"

Fred Patten

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I think they have some kind of limited exclusivity with Target, at the moment.

I've seen some Zootopia fan fiction already (no, I didn't actually read it), plus at least one semi-animated fan parody on YouTube, and, you know, more fan art than you can shake a stick at.

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Yeah, there were "Gargoyles" fan conventions for awhile, but they've faded away. And there's that Russian cult that worships Gadget Hackwrench as a goddess -- how serious is that, and does it still exist?

Fred Patten

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If it can manage 13 years like GotG, that might still be considered quite reasonable.

I think Zootopia would work very well as a Disney theme park area, but it would require a serious investment; perhaps more than they'd like to do on the basis of one movie.

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Well, there will be all the "Zootopia" TV episodes and the DVD sequels in the next few years, so maybe there will be a theme park area eventually.

Fred Patten

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I think they just paint new signs over old attractions when a movie comes out, anyway.

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So apparently this is Zootopia fan art. (Technically SFW, but, you know what, wait 'til you get home.)

Edit: Whoops, thought it was some pretty standard issue furry art passed off as some sort of Zootopia fan character, but apparently it's based on some unused concept art of arctic fox masseuses (which are awesome).

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Indeed. Carrot made a decidedly NSFW piece showing them in a 'happy ending' to the same scene.

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Not unused. Just used for a background in the naturalist resort. The polar bear's on a massage table as Yax is walking Nick and Judy out to Nangi.

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Three showings, and I missed that!

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You did a pretty great job of explaining it. Even though Crossie doesn't think so, I definitely think it's just a flash in the pan.

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Proud Staffer of VancouFur 2017~

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Well, Fred kind of took the subthread away from my original speculation, but you're down here now, and I did think of something about Rock Dog's complete lack of release date, despite the fact it appeared more or less finished over half a year ago. And, unfortunately, it may be another reason for you to hate Zootopia; the character models, especially of the foxes, are very similar to character designs in Zootopia (which, on one hand, may speak to your criticism of "generic" character design in Zootopia, but, on the other hand, doesn't really explain why you give it a pass over here). Given the large amount of time needed to make one of these big CG productions, it's a complete accident, but if they come out now, it'll look, like, well the cheap Chinese knockoff of Zootopia.

Though I don't know how delaying it helps the problem.

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Even though "Rock Dog" is completely produced by Reel FX in Dallas. Yeah, that's the way it goes.

Fred Patten

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I give it a pass for not being a fox. And for doing something unique. XP

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Proud Staffer of VancouFur 2017~

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Yes, it's only the third talking animal movie of the year featuring a fully anthropomorphic world featuring the voice of J.K. Simmons in a supporting role. Very unique.

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Lol that's just a formality. XP

You're also a biased red fox btw. XD

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Proud Staffer of VancouFur 2017~

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I think this post has already gotten the most comments this year! Funny how posts I'm involved with do that? XD

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Proud Staffer of VancouFur 2017~

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When I was active in Lion King fandom, I remember there being a general sense of disappointment that Disney wasn't pushing it more in terms of merchandising. It was the runaway favorite in terms of Internet fan activity, well ahead of the more critically acclaimed Beauty and the Beast or the features that followed it, Pocahontas, Hunchback, Hercules, and Mulan. In particular, Disney seemed bent on pushing variants on Winnie the Pooh.

There is already at least one adult Zootopia fanfic on SoFurry, which I have not read and I'm not sure I want to.

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"What is believable is that Disney doesn't think that stuff featuring Judy Hopps, Nick Wilde, the DMV sloths, etc, will sell to the general American public the way that "Minions" stuff will."

Holy crap do they ever need to get off the studio lot and into a cinema a little more often if thats really the line of thought. It's Spring Break in Oklahoma and all three showings I've seen of Zootopia had few to no kids (and a pretty high number of people who did have kids in the audience left midway).

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So far, I don't like the documentary. But I don't like judging a movie I can't see yet. Zootopia is awesome because I watched it, and it was awesome. It's too soon for me to say anything confidently about Fursonas.

One thing I will say for sure though, the teaser trailer for Zootopia was a thousand times more furry than what I've seen in Fursonas' trailers.

Furry isn't about fursuits. It's not about feeling you're a non-human animal, or some kind of derived transcendent perception. It's not about Uncle Kage. It's not about Boomer the Dog. Furry essentially is about entertaining animal-anthropomorphic fictional characters and their stories, also known as "funny animals". Zootopia's teaser trailer reflected that. Any other personal perspective about furry is non-conventional.

I don't want my 'fursona' to be understood as something that it isn't. It's a fictional character, an alter ego creature that represents me in a fantasy world of furry. It's a character.

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Amen! Speaking personally. This is why I'm a furry fan; because I enjoy animal-anthropomorphic fictional characters, and their stories and worlds. I respect the furs who wear fursuits because it brings their fictional fursonas to life. I'm not comfortable around those who believe that their fursonas reflect their true personality; that they're really a wolf or tiger or dog trapped in a human body. This is a major reason that I read and enjoy so many adventures featuring anthropomorphic characters of all species.

Fred Patten

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This story is now being discussed in Korean (a strange coincidence given the publication of this one).

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Pittsburgh fur Antnommer has posted a review of Fursonas on the Pennsylvania Furries website. Worth reading, especially if you aren't likely to be in a position to see the film itself anytime soon.

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Sounds better, though, actually, terrible for what Cassidy wants it to be; doesn't sound like a good overview for outsiders, at all, but, finally, some self critique (been an apologizer for ChewFox in the past, myself).

Also, the reviewer would like to see some art; guy must have insecurities, or something.

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The reviewer saw the movie rather than just assuming about it. Great review. It reminded me that it actually does feature an artist. It's Varka, who labels himself a Cocksmith. I have some articles asking "is porn art?" And saying "yes" - in that case, he's the most successful artist in the fandom.

A friend of mine joked - take Bad Dragon's con display case, drop in in a modern art museum and watch people stand around stroking their chins and going hmmm! Funny prank, but seriously, r. Mutt comes to mind.

One of the big reasons for a documentary is this media image thing people spend so much time talking about. Since they care so much, its worthwhile to focus on the dialogue rather than just another bland "furry 101" thing to contradict the sensational side. Great, bring the sex and controversy. (Its the same approach I have a blog for). Since it makes critique, it sounds like it accomplishes just what a good documentary should. I wouldn't ask more.

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Though ironically most of the assumptions I had made seem to have been confirmed by this review rather then disproved.

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As the PA Furries site has been taking down posts about this documentary, I'm crossposting my thoughts here for safety:

I happen to live in Pittsburgh, like Antnommer, and was able to attend the premiere. I don't have the time for a full writeup at the moment, but I at least need to help clear up some misconceptions, some of which have been spread by people who mean well.

Fursonas is not going to be the film you show your friends when they ask what a furry is. Fursonas is not a PR piece, nor is it a sensationalist exposé.

The subject of Fursonas is not the furry fandom at large, but a handful of people who identify as furries, of different ages, genders, sexualities. Each individual talks about what furry means to them, personally. The filmmakers make it painstakingly clear that these people are not meant to represent the entire community.

It's that expectation otherwise - that everyone who speaks to the media needs to worry about the reputation of all furries - that the film explores in its second half, leading to the emphasis on Kage. I wouldn't call it a hit piece - as far as I could tell, none of the clips of Kage were taken out of context, and they all related to the themes of censorship and ostracization. I do suspect that those unfamiliar with Kage's, erm, theatrics might mistake his over-the-top demeanor for actual insanity. Personally, I was impressed by their restraint; if the filmmakers really wanted to make him look bad, they could have shown so much more.

I felt that the film ultimately didn't make a statement so much as it asked a question: why, in a community that values creativity and self-expression, are people afraid of expressing their true selves, or allowing others to? It's a question that only someone intimately familiar with the furry fandom would know to ask, and only the fandom itself can answer.

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Thank you for your clarifying post, NAK_ATTACK

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Very perceptive... "It's that expectation otherwise - that everyone who speaks to the media needs to worry about the reputation of all furries - that the film explores in its second half"

I think it's wrong to dominate someone's personal expression by acting entitled to approve their content, or having certain conformity expectations. Especially when it's just armchair complaints about other people's expression without doing the work to make things happen. People can speak for themselves.

That was the case in my area, when a lot of furs trotted out assumptions when there was an invitation for a furry speaker to a live talk show called "Live Sex". The show organizers were respectful to visit one of our intimate furry venues, get to know people personally (well they made a beeline for me based on sparkliest outfit in the room)... I forwarded the invite to the community with an option for anyone to step forward... drama ensued so I did it. Nothing bad happened and the show got a great review. The reviewer gave me a nice compliment: "They defanged prejudices or assumptions about the Furry community, and was cautious to not speak for the entirety of his tribe."

I think the line is between personal and impersonal. Commercial minded stuff is on the line. The bad kind is over the line (trashy attack media). The good kind is when you protect something from getting dragged down. If PR is overprotective, it lets the bad kind win by giving it the power to censor.

Great topic, everything I'd want a good furry doc to get into.

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Well... the show was called "Live Sex"... What do you expect... Maybe it would only have been worse if called "Yiff in Hell Furfags"

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What's wrong with a talk show about sex though? Was run by a nonprofit social worker and community show producer... a nice grassroots opposite of exploitation media.

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Not sure that's the bar to judge by. Jerry Springer was a reverend...

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Then judge it by the thorough review written by someone who was actually there.

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Knowing just a little about you? (Thought I might be mistaken?) Nothing whatsoever. You're so fabulous you eat up that camera / microphone until they love you, like I do!

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Aw thanks :) It was a great occasion to be fabulous! And looks like there's another one, the Fursonas director is making a detour to my neighborhood to enjoy the furriness.

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Yes people can speak for themselves (THEMSELVES!!!) but they are not allowed to let the "I represent Furries in general"-flag fly high, when doing so.

They don't represent me! And yet they act as if they do!
Do you see why people get frustrated with people doing this stuff over, and over and over and over and the rest of the fandom cheering them on?

Is this movie calling me a liar when I try my best to explain to people that being a Furry is in general not about sex?
If so, then fuck this flick!

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Nobody in this film does that. I'm not sure why you've assumed otherwise.

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It does sound frustrating to be so pent-up in general about everything. Sounds like you need a little netflix and chill.

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@Patch Packrat

It IS frustrating. It is DAMN frustrating!
Plus, I'm the only one willing to do it, apparently.
Nobody wants to be the spoilsport. Because it gets people irritated with you, right off the bat.

But it needs to be done! It's important. I will not let the Fans destroy the Fan-subject-matter by just not caring about how they come across to others.

___________________________________________

Some simple suggestions:

- Be awesome if you can!
- When in public (!) don't come across as creepy/embarrassing if you can avoid it!
- If you couldn't avoid it, please don't let the "I represent Furries, guys!"-Flag fly high.
- If you did let that flag fly high, please don't spread it around and treat it as exemplary.
- If you did that - you done goofed! You have just created another "scandal" for everyone to distance themselves from. You contributed to the sad fact that people are increasingly ASHAMED (!) to be called Furries!
- If that happened - we should be distancing ourselves from that incident to avoid coming across as if this is what we are about.

If you just don't fricking care - please don't be mad about the fact that I (!) care! Because I do!

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If you did that - you done goofed! You have just created another "scandal" for everyone to distance themselves from. You contributed to the sad fact that people are increasingly ASHAMED (!) to be called Furries!

I, for one, can't think of another time in my life when it's been better to be a furry so far. Is it a perfect time? Naw, heck, events of the last year pretty much cost me a vacation I had planned out and was looking forward to for over a year in advance. But I can't think of another time in my life where I'd have coworkers openly talking about a cartoon movie clearly aimed at least in part at our fandom with forethought, dissecting every detail of trivia from it for a week straight, either.

It seems our fandom has arrived. Expect some growing pains.

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Amen! I'm proud to be called a furry fan.

Of course, I've never worn a fursuit or attended a furry convention in anything besides my street clothes. As I've said, I admire the furry artists and authors, and those who have commissioned fursuits of their fursonas to bring their fictional alter egos to life. I don't identify with those who claim that their fursonas and fursuits show their true identity, and that they are animal-people trapped inside a human body.

Fred Patten

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You see, I think we as a species tend to get defensive over what others do that share a hobby or skin color because other people of other hobbies or skin color will use those weakest links to attack the 'better' people of that hobby or skin color.

Maybe instead of apologizing for the actions of those being exploited to attack the group, we should be putting a spotlight on those other people that seem to expect us to be able to have absolute control of other human beings.

My guess is that those other people would find something else to bitch about if they didn't have that other thing to gripe about. They don't like furries, sex or not, it's irrelevant, the sex thing is just what they're using as an excuse.

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You're still explicitly making this an "us vs. them" argument; you're just redefining the "us-es" and the "thems".

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To be fair, so was the person I responded to.

Only their's was intra-fandom, while mine is more extra-fandom.

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Two wrongs don't make a right, Sonious. To mildly mis-quote the movie that this article is putting itself in opposition to, there's still a them now.

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Still, if all the furry porn evaporated into nothingness, I still see a good sizable amount of people still calling furries freaks.

People, in general, will call others weird or ostracize based on their habits that are outside of their comfort zone. Sex is only one of those things. And I do believe those that believe that if Bad Dragon and furry porn evaporated over night that every would love and respect the furries and rainbows would come pouring out of the sky, are delusional at best.

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True, though that brings up an interesting point: if Bad Dragon went, a lot of the porn might, too; they bankroll e621, F-list, the new Furry Network, and one of Inkbunny's busiest caches.

That said, e621 has been 'permanently' closed before. I suspect someone would step in. Similarly, Inkbunny has other caches, and could spin up more. But it'd be felt.

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But those aren't the big sources of porn. e621 is mostly images reposted from other places and F-list is a roleplay site, something which was alive and well long before it came into existence.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

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They aren't the biggest sources, no. But e621 is, as far as I am aware, the second-busiest furry site in terms of traffic - it's where many go to consume, delivering what they're looking for quickly - and some do post their own work there.

As for F-list, it's a case of people investing a lot of time in their personal profiles.

It's easy to say "everything could be rebuilt elsewhere". But I think that undervalues the time people have invested in profiles, tagging and comments and the social relations they have built up.

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@Sonious:
1. Jup. True that. I explain Furry to people who have been thoroughly confused by all the fetish-shit that leaks out from underneath it. Who could blame them? I would be confused too.
We do not (!) have to make Furry more easy to misconstrue than it has to be.
And here's the kicker: The blame may not actually lie on everyone else - maybe the blame lies with some of us.

What did the guys that trolled Tony the Tiger expect? What did they expect? How would that make the rest of us look?

Damn right I get "defensive"! (aka. I explain stuff to people who were confused about it)
And I wished more people got defensive!
Shit needs to be explained!

2. ? Noone is expecting you to have control over human beings. I'm asking for repercussions! I'm asking for evil looks and people shouting "boooo!" when some Furry fucks things up or is about to fuck things up. NO cheering and no endless retweets. Is that Orwellian now?

3. I don't even care if people hate it or not. I don't mind people hating it after having understood it. I just care about people UNDERSTANDING Furry. realizing what it is. If people realize how trivial liking anthro characters is, noone in their right mind could ever hate it again.
The sex thing is not an excuse to hate us, it's the reason many people hate us. You're talking about Trolls on 4chan - yes. THOSE people will use every excuse to hate us. I agree. Fortunately not every person is a Troll on 4chan. I don't particularly care about Channers.
I'm talking about the general populus.

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As far as I've read about it, the movie just brands everyone who says that being a Furry is NOT about sex as a liar.
If that is true, then fuck this movie!

Furry will become what we make it out to be. And establishing to the outside world that we want to be an open pervert-club, will turn us into one.
Bye bye, awesome people who will now be increasingly afraid to be called "Furries". Thanks a lot "Fursonas"!

Anthro Characters are awesome.
I dread a world in which people automatically assotiate anthro characters with pervyness. Not cool. Anthro chars are too awesome to let this happen. :(

Please, just don't contribute to this world!
If half of what I've read about this documentary is true, then it deserves to be shunned and banished - not to be held up high.

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I haven't heard that at all 0.o

I'm a different furry with different opinions.

Proud Staffer of VancouFur 2017~

Your rating: None Average: 3 (4 votes)

Perverts are awesome people. They laugh when you draw dongs on their cars and don't turn all purple with little veins throbbing in their foreheads. They aren't too uptight to bake dirty cupcakes for your birthday. Cupcakes with gay pink sparkles and dog butts made of frosting. You'll have a great time if you're lucky enough to come to that party.

Anyone want to help me make another feature article about awesome perverts? This one about the Too Hot For PBS video was my favorite. Maybe I should do a "greatest hits of furry porn".

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Please don't embrace this...
Furry is not about perversion. Don't MAKE it about perversion.

(I'm not even saying that perverts are bad people. I'm just saying that people should not see a fetish movement, when they look at anthro characters. Too many people have these assotiations already. People should not make excuses for why they draw anthro characters. People should not look at you funny, when you have a Furaffinity account.)

DON'T (!!!!!!!) embrace this!
Perverts may be awesome people. I would agree. We should STILL not let them represent (!) us.

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Ok, I'm now building a "greatest hits of furry porn" article to counter the stereotypes of puritanical prudes.

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It'll be really popular.

Whatever happened to Karri Aronen, who was drawing all that "Tiny Toon Adventures" porn in the early 1990s? He assumed that he was safe from Warner Bros.' lawyers because he lived in Turku, Finland, and "they couldn't reach him there". Did they? He just disappeared.

Fred Patten

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I hope you have more of those rat pics by Biohazard. I wanna see more!

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Go take a look at the categories on the FurAffinity "browse" page. If FA wasn't the only website allowing furry porn in 2005, it wouldn't even exist today.

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It wasn't the only website. But it actually had innovative (I know right) things back then.

Such as being able to see thumbnails, post journals, interact in general. All while giving each furry their own personal page.

I think up to that point all other furry porn sites were Yahoo! Groups, Forums, VCL, etc.

Which is why I do think that the future of FurAffinity does not bode well today, it has remained stagnant on the innovations of the past. The word innovation is not tied to it these days. And while things can survive for years on past popularity (say the Cable Industry), eventually someone's going to come around with something that provides something that fullfills the new demands, even demands the audience did not know about, and replace the ones that refused to change with the times. And as such as what had happened to VCL, will eventually happen to FurAffinity.

It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when (like the Cable Industry).

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I wouldn't count FA out as long as it stays up; but we're likely to see further splintering along cultural faultlines. As the fandom grows, you need less of it to build a viable community; and such a focus can be a strength.

Technology alone may not be the deciding factor. FA's rise came as a result of a combination of factors:

Technology can reduce costs, increased performance or ease of use, and add or enhance features. But it takes time to deliver, and each change comes with risks. FA was down for eight hours earlier this month due to an upgrade, after all.

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CSI didn't "ruin" any perceptions, and don't kid yourselves: if anything, it held back.

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That CSI episode made good watching at a furry movie party. I don't think realism matters that much with a fictional tv show about murder.

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I still think the kangaroo suiter that was on the catwalk before "Sexy Kitty" was a far better fursuit in every way.

At least I remember there being one, haven't seen the episode in yeeeeeeeeaaaarsss.

And people still bring it up as if it happened yesterday.

Is there even any CSI shows at all running anymore? I mean, our 'little fad' survived their's so I guess they can point and laugh all they like.

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I thought the most shocking moment was actually the other case showing a freeze frame of a guy taking a point blank shotgun blast.

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Some more to this story here.
http://dogpatch.press/2016/03/22/free-speech-fursonas-movie

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Let's be honest here, only a handful has actually seen Fursonas. But yet Anthrocon banned it's creator. Talk about the nanny syndrome. On the other hand Midwest FurFest is planning on a screening of the film. Look everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but only after they actually seen the film. I will go on the record to say I have not seen the film. Although I don't know if I could make it to the screening.

I see opinions everywhere, but very few mentions of anyone actually seeing the film. In fact on the various social media I belong to I would say only about 6 have admitted that they saw it, and seeing their opinions you get a mixed result.

The proof is in the viewing I wonder how many who already has posted a comment has actually seen the film

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About the author

CassidyTheCivet (Cassidy Civet)read storiescontact (login required)

a student and Malayan Civet from Vancouver, interested in music and art!

I'm a female civet! Always down for a good time, but never a cup of coffee. ;3
I am a musician and artist, as I say, a born musician and a living artist!

Cons Attended:
VancouFur 2016/2017
Howloween 2016
Fur-Eh 2017