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Fur Affinity administrator resigns amid hate group policy controversy

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quoting_mungo, who has moderated multiple furry websites and would have been on Fur Affinity's administrative team for five years on January 27, 2018, resigned today, she announced in a Fur Affinity journal entry. Apparently originally aiming to resign mid-January or February, it appears decisions for and reactions to Fur Affinity's new policy regarding hate groups encouraged her to cut that time short.

Discussed briefly here on Flayrah previously, Fur Affinity user Pokefound uploaded a $15 commission they'd drawn, depicting a My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic-styled character, wearing a swastika armband and SS collar tab, performing a Nazi salute against a background of Nazi Germany swastika flags. Believing it to be a violation of the hate group policy, another user reported it via Fur Affinity's trouble ticket system.

Mungo, who as an admin specialized in Code of Conduct violations, believed it to fall under the policy's exception for fictional contexts, and closed the ticket without taking further action. The decision proved to be controversial after the user who'd reported the image uploaded a screenshot of her response to Twitter, accusing her of "constantly sympathiz[ing] with nazis", entreating Dragoneer to directly address the situation.

More furry Twitter users began reporting the image en masse, some calling for quoting_mungo to be removed from her position. Ultimately the submission was removed. Apparently not comfortable with the decision [but see below], quoting_mungo's resignation journal noted:

Some aspects of internal policy go against my grain, and I am not comfortable standing for those decisions. I have good reasons for my position, others have good reasons for theirs, the two are simply irreconcilable and no available compromise would alleviate my concerns sufficiently for me to feel okay about this.

quoting_mungo went on to cite toxic attitudes directed at herself and other Fur Affinity administrators both on Fur Affinity and via social media as another motivation for leaving, noting that her relationship with her peers remains friendly, and says she is open to a future return to the team.

In response to the events, FA Community Manager Dragoneer stated that the administrative team intends to discuss the policy further, to attempt to find a line at which fictional works cross the line of what is acceptable. It is not yet known who will take over Mungo's responsibilities.

Comments

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Correction/clarification: The removal of the content was based on comments posted after it was initially found not in violation. I had no issue with that action, and would have taken it with or without the Twitter outrage.

The quoted portion of the journal concerns policy matters completely unrelated to COC 2.7 (the rule against identifying with or promoting hate groups), though I cannot go into more detail due to NDA. My resignation was initially planned for Jan 27, and had been decided for some time before recent events.

Your rating: None Average: 3.8 (9 votes)

Thanks for clarifying - and for holding on as long as you did. I saw a small portion of the hate directed to you over the years. It's not easy to moderate a site like FA, let alone one the size of FA, and I doubt many of those criticizing you would have been able to do a better job, even if they were able (and willing) to spare the time it requires.

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It is what it is. I understand people are bound to be unhappy from time to time when you have to step in and tell them how to behave. I am hurt by recent event because of the incredibly loaded labels being applied to me, but long-term I've been more bothered by what it's done for/to my partners.

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and would have taken it with or without the Twitter outrage.

so then why not just remove it in the first place, without comment, and save the outrage and save this resignation.

Personally speaking, I'm just glad I can use FA again with you gone.

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Thanks for stopping by to clear things up. So, you're saying that later comments by the artist indicated that the art was meant as promotion?

Also, I have to say, I'm skeptical of the claim it's completely unrelated. If true, though, you have pretty amusing timing.

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Yeah; I believe there are screenshots on Twitter somewhere among this mess of them doubling down and calling it promotion.

It's less that I have amusing timing as that the whole smear- and harassment campaign was unnecessary. I was going to be gone by the end of January anyway, and as previously mentioned I'd already made that decision some time ago; I was staying on to give us time to break in new moderators, because I sincerely like the people I worked with and didn't want to leave them short-handed.

While I can understand the skepticism, I must admit I am pretty tired of people questioning my motivations at this point. I don't do lies. It really has absolutely no relation to that rule.

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This ignore previous issues about quoting_mungo's apparent support for Nazism, a repeated issue that has been coming up for many months where Mungo would work to slap down anyone saying stuff against Nazism, and defending Nazi symbols as "fiction" or "art", even after the rule change (Which was explained and I understood to be allowing only for historical work, rather than glorification).

Mungo's entire journal is a big attempt at spin that I don't buy.

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I saw enough complaints of this particular issue with this admin that I even was in the process of gathering them for an article when FA did the policy change. It went on back burner to see how things would change. The decision about the nazi pony art was perplexing. Having to see someone's signed membership card in the Society To Glorify Nazis was kind of absurd.

The word "mob" reads as disingenuuous about legit protest. The protest has frequently been at one particular admin, not the whole site or owner. The change of decision in this case happened when high profile voices started speaking up without bringing any pitchforks out. The excuse about change of decision may cite further comments from the user on FA, but everyone knows there was more going on.

Aside from an apparent double standard of being harsh on critics of nazis and soft on nazi art, I have to wonder if geography was involved (something sweden something north america).

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It's not ignoring it entirely; I did mention that the original person who went to Twitter said as much of her. I haven't been on FA for years before this "stuff", and the only other thing I could find in the thread was someone coming forward with a rule that wasn't really related to the hate group rule per se (promotion of real-life violence, which is a can of worms for a website no matter whom it's against).

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I first encountered this issue back in August of this year. When complaining without naming names, people PM'd me to ask if it was Mungo.

And yeah, the "promotion of real life violence" is the rule that Mungo was hitting people with for anti-Nazi comments.

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Ah, to clarify: I suppose I should grant that it's not "ignore", so much as "did not mention."

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The journal's worth reading in full. While internal dissent over policies is one reason to leave, it seems the personal attacks on her and other FA staff were a significant factor. There is a line: it's when you criticise the person, rather than the decision.

Most staff see this from time to time, at least if they are identifiable as the person behind a particular action. It doesn't help when those you deal with tend to be people who have broken the rules, or who're angry about what they see as violations. Explaining to the latter that, actually, it isn't a violation, rarely goes over well.

It's possible for a mob to drive someone out of a staff position, depending on the situation. This is rarely good for the site, or its community - volunteers do not grow on trees, and in fandom they often hold highly-skilled roles and/or leadership positions; replacing them is non-trivial. Meanwhile, the remaining staff also have to deal with the former volunteer's job until a replacement is found (or else it's just not done). Unfortunately, those most likely to do this - those who already aren't using [x] - also tend to have the least to lose if things go downhill.

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Agreed. This was a policy decision and IMO harassment of this kind is never OK. Did make she the wrong choice...probably, but that doesn't justify this. I really doubt she is some mustache twirling Nazi.

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Staff aren't necessarily making the choices people think; they may not even have a choice at all:
* With respect to art, it doesn't have to be a choice between Nazis and anti-fascists; rather, freedom vs. censorship. Staff who disapprove of Nazi-related content may yet permit it because they set a higher priority on artistic freedom.
* The staff members responsible for enforcing a policy are not necessarily the ones with authority to change it.

Alas, those who count themselves as Righteous amongst the Furries rarely appreciate provisions designed with an eye to preserving artistic freedom or open discussion – that is, until their own material lands on the chopping block.

I don't know how much freedom FA staff have in interpreting policy. Often there's a hierarchy, with those higher up having greater input into and ability to interpret the rules, subject to correction by the owner's ultimate authority (who may in turn be constrained by laws in the jurisdictions which they operate; or hosting, payment or advertising contracts they have entered into).

One person handling a lot of related cases is to be expected; FA has relatively few high-level staff, and they get all the tough cases. They might similarly be deemed pro/anti-cub if responsible for enforcing those areas of a FA provisions, with no greater justice.

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You're hitting a lot of nails on the head, there. Have you considered a career in carpentry? ;)

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Absolutely agree. There is also the problem that on staff you can never really win. If you make one decision you have a bunch of angry users criticising you and if you make the other decision you have a different bunch of angry users criticising you. It can be very draining, no doubt especially for such a big site.

That's certainly not to say that criticism of decisions is never warranted or that people should not argue for their own positions but that should not descend into insults and personal attacks. I can't say I am perfect about that but I do try to avoid personal attacks as much as possible, though it can be difficult when emotions run high.

The other problem with mobs is that they tend to oversimplify things. To use an actual example. A forum I moderate has the policy not to allow people to make posts which admit to illegal activities for fairly obvious reasons. So then you remove posts about soft drug use and get accused of being anti-drugs. Even when you can point to somewhere else and say "we did the exact same thing on a different topic" or "Here I am supporting a change in drug laws" people just ignore it. It's something to bear in mind when these controversies arise that a lot of accusations against people are just not true. I know I've been attacked and accused of all sorts of things which are just not even close to true or the opposite of what I stand for.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

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"If you make one decision you have a bunch of angry users criticising you and if you make the other decision you have a different bunch of angry users criticising you. "

That sounds like the equivocation that Donald J Trump spewed after the Charleston neo-Nazi rally over the summer where peaceful protestors were attacked by hard-right hate, but such equivocations are false. There's no equivocating hate- and intolerance-ideating memes within the fandom because they are foreign and mutually-exclusive with it. The last thing anyone should believe is that things are "business as usual" in 2017 going into 2018. We're all facing a crisis in international social plurality that will require us to be exception human beings, or make way for those who are willing to try.

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Never asssume you have reached bottom with the equivocation you're seeing here. From nazis to CP of actual children, you can see it all excused while the equivocator then equivocates about "well actually I don't stand for that nasty thing" (except in all observable action, as well as being silent and deflecting to generalities when people discuss specific incidents). Be decisive about dismissing posers when you see them.

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You might want to look up what equivocation actually is. Greenreaper made a comment about administering websites and the pressure and attacks that come with it. My reply to that was also about administering websites and how people read whatever they want into something regardless of what you say. Here you clearly demonstrate that by trying to make what I said about something completely different.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

Your rating: None Average: 2 (13 votes)

Reminder that when I post about you being a simpering chucklefuck full of hot air and half baked cliches people go find it months later and copy it to completely different websites to laugh about it. Stop talking to me.

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If you don't want people to reply to your comments, you need to stop involving yourself in conversations, especially threads in which they're already involved. You can't ban people from responding to you on Flayrah (though you can ignore them); replying with personal attacks just suggests that you have no valid response.

Your rating: None Average: 2.7 (7 votes)

The valid response is from the guy I was talking to, adding an observation is in lieu of a block already in place elsewhere.

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This has nothing to do with this thread whatsoever, but your name brought back a lot of memories of tacky 1970's TV special effects in that pre-Ultimatte era. You must have some connection/interest in that era to adopt "Chroma Key" as your nom d'internet.

- Joe

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I wish I could say that this issue is surprising, or that FA demonstrated strong community leadership or even just ethical moderation on the FA Forums and FA. But then, I'm banned from FA and cut off from the community of artists I expected to be supporting throughout the holidays because FA's approach to problems seems to be to punitively harm the whistleblowers.

I think part of the problem is the lack of stating community standards of conduct in positive terms. For instance, on the FA Forums, there's a Ten Commandments-like list of forbidden things, vaguely defined, and liberally, arbitrary, and capriciously interpreted for all sorts of magical moderation effects that seem mostly about cowing intellectualism, stifling community organization, and creating a safe space for misogyny and the most philistine anti-fandom alt-right ideological well-poisoning meme spreaders.

It's seemingly perverse because it's overtly anti-fandom, and it's dark fruit cultivated by the team quoting_mungo heads. And it's not as if the problems haven't been presented publically and privately ad nausium. There's been a real and system effort of neglect and tonedeaf antisocial anti-excellence leadership that is unbecoming of any fandom, especially ours, especially now when sufficiency would mean that lucid brilliance is essential.

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The fandom has been offered alternatives to FA and has responded with indifference, or in some cases outright hostility.

I'd like to say I'm surprised -- but after nearly six years of this, I couldn't be any less surprised.

All the genuinely good people I knew, without exception, have burned out (or are in the process of doing so). Idealism doesn't really last long (at least mine didn't, as developer then moderator of one of the non-FA art sites).

Ultimately furry reaps what it sows.

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I think the commissioner of said artwork missed an opportunity, as the equal sign (=) has been shown to be the symbol of tyrannical regimes in Equestria, not some swastika.

If the art had not been removed on the ground that it does not promote said views, my suggestion was then going to be for artists who despise the work to draw a short comic of Celestia launching the "fictional" character into the sun. Because if the character IS neutral and not tied with anyone's personal views it should not be offensive to have the queen (praise be to the sun) sort of have a cleansing of said swastika wearing ponies. After all, Equestrian has one ruling class and don't you forget it.

Quoting does indicate that comments made by commissioner/artist had indicated that the broni-sona had revealed their hand that it was promotional or personal fulfillment before said call out could happen though, and why it was removed later on.

However if that was the case then the accelerated resignation was hardly necessary and only enforced that the person resigning felt that they handled the initial action poorly enough to step aside (because of the timing). That's the optics of the action regardless of the words used while making it.

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Drawing a short comic of Celestia launching the character into the sun without the permission of the character owner would most likely violate both AUP and COC if posted to FA. Getting yourself in trouble over someone else doing something you disagree with is ultimately counterproductive. Could you draw a short comic of Celestia launching a random other swaztika-wearing pony into the sun? Sure. Go ahead.

Yes, public perception was something I considered as a factor against stepping down early, but ultimately, I am not obligated to stay on just to spite bullies, especially not if continuing to stay on has the one of my partners I mentioned it to fearing for my life due to how the harassment was affecting my mental/emotional health.

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Oh, please. that last bit is just to gain sympathy. Just. stop.

You let a nazi picture go despite being not only against the rules of furaffinity but the entire idea of the show. You've done it before this too. Stop acting like criticism of you is unwarranted. You were, honestly, the worst moderator in the history of FA. People would say your name with disdain and openly stop using FA because of you.

I know that when I had to open a ticket I'd dread if you were the moderator that caught it.

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Hi,

I'm her boyfriend (also dating her husband). I've spent months worried about the emotional health impact her position at FA had been causing her. The night before she resigned, she was having suicidal ideation. I said, verbatim:

"I know that feeling. Hun, it's time both to tell your therapist this (like, today), and it's time to tell 'Neer you're retiring early. Those feelings are dangerous.”

If you want to change the moderation on FA, have discussions about the policies. Don't go on a witch hunt over the admin who's stuck enforcing a poorly phrases policy. The former can change how the site is handled; the latter is bullying, pure and simple. You'll find the next admin does the same things Mungo did, because it's their job to enforce site policies. Mungo often got second opinions within staff on the less clear cut cases, the next admin will do so too.

By the way, she's a pacifist egalitarian socialist hippie, but she put all of that aside to apply the policies consistently even when she disagreed with them. If you want some perspective, go looking on Twitter for alt right furries complaining that "he's" a "cuck" who "always sides with antifa" - you'll find plenty people on the other side unhappy that she won't take down anti-nazi art either.

You are clearly a person who wants to change the world, possibly for the better. Use that anger in a productive way. Call your government officials (call, not email or write, calling takes more of their time), volunteer at a homeless shelter, donate to "Nazi rehab" organizations, go to protests. Be a good person, lead by example. There is so much you could do that's productive. Complaining about an admin online isn't productive - rather the opposite, it engenders an atmosphere of extremism, us-or-them thinking.

I'm looking forward to her finally being able to say her mind. In truth, I doubt that the most vocal people will listen - it's far easier to close your eyes and believe you are correct than it is to learn and change.

So, I've been polite. Please excuse me a moment to express my feelings after months for holding my tongue. To you and all of the other witch-hunting arseholes spouting vitreol on twitter: go fuck yourself. It's disgusting the degree to which people claiming to be avidly against Nazis employ so many of their enemy's tactics.

PS - the policy that has fanned the flames so pathetically much is designed to prevent people espousing bigetous views. It is not intended to censor art for censorship's sake. Yes, the phrasing on it sucks. Want it fixed? Ask for it to be clarified. Heaven knows I've wished for months it was written better so that people would stop shooting the messenger. Almost literally - part of what pushed her to retire a few months earlier than she was planning was a death threat.

Think about that a moment. A death threat. From someone who doesn't like Nazis. A person who claims to be liberal. So liberal and progressive that they want to kill someone.

Always question yourself least you become the thing you hate.

As sincerely as I've ever written anything in my life,
Lutris (ThreeRandomWords on FA)

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I doubt that the most vocal people will listen

i don't know about being vocal given that I just had my first interaction with her today, but you're right. I won't be listening and your cutesy little comment doubled that.

by thanks for helping me identify who to block on fa.

i'll say the same you said to me--go fuck yourself. diaf.

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"By the way, she's a pacifist egalitarian socialist hippie, but she put all of that aside to apply the policies consistently even when she disagreed with them."

If you can put your principles aside to blindly enforce some code you "disagree with," then objectively those are not actually your principles with any credible conviction. Who is promoting militarist inequitable fascist or anti-progressive views at FA? Shouldn't people call that out wherever it may occur so that the community can response accordingly? Otherwise, doesn't it start to look like collaboration? Anyway, I agree with you remedy, and hopefully the situation can now improve for all stakeholders and interested parties within the fandom and its community.

Your rating: None Average: 3.8 (6 votes)

Apologies that the stress of the position and the actions of a few angry people gets you down. There is no doubts that those that push the death threat angle have also been placed into a position of "fight or flight" by organizations and people who promote them such as neo-nazis.

Those that are in that state to start with are trying to bring people into the fold of their fights, and I think most of the time they don't even remember what got them to that place to begin with. It's the tragedy of having a cognitive brain that can remember, but never forgive, and a mixture of pride.

Stepping down, overall, was the right thing to do in this case. Even if people interpret them going for one reason or another. Hopefully FurAffinity can continue to find people willing to deal with the stress at such low costs, because it does sound like hell.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

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Hey man, nobody here is on a "witch hunt" or sending death threats. Maybe save your vitriol for where it's more beneficial. Or at least less nonsensical.

Your rating: None Average: 4.7 (3 votes)

Consider: The rules stated that fictional content was permitted. Up til now, that was left vague and (I assume) left up to moderator discretion, in this case, Quoting_mungo. That means that until changing her mind due to later comments, the image was not against the rules of Fur Affinity.

Your rating: None Average: 3.4 (7 votes)

Some things are worth 'getting into trouble' to defend against. There's also the mental/emotional health of our fandom community to consider, you know. Why did you even make it come down to this stressful end when, with sound principles and administration, you could have helped elevate FA to be a beacon and a standard for the community. I still don't "get" you or where you are come from or what social world you're existing in because it is nothing like the experience we're having over here in US and British fandom contexts and I still don't understand how your responses always seem to betray some failure to apprehend that.

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If it is someone's personal 'fursona' wearing a nazi uniform in a positive context then it is a promotion of Nazism, full stop.

If, instead, it is a purely fictional character with no ties to anyone (which is where the argument 'it doesn't promote Nazism' holds any water), then utilizing a fictional character in a way in which is to make a counter statement is fair use.

Unless you guys at FurAffinity took all the pictures with Pikachu in it and forwarded it to Game Freak for approval of each one. But something in me doubts that.

Your rating: None Average: 4.2 (5 votes)

Interesting that you mention replacing the swastika with another symbol. I remember reading a comment by the artist that said the commissioner did not specify what they'd wanted the background to be, and that the artist could have replaced the symbol with anything...specifically, they suggested a paw print. That reminds me of absolutely nothing in particular.

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Maybe the frustration level would not be so high, were this not just the latest in a long running serious of questionable Admin calls on this site. Agreed that no one likes everything, and that anything will draw a complaint from someone, but among the major furry sites, FA has stood out for renegade admins, lack of supervision, erratics enforcement of unclear policies, and mass punitive actions against it's users.
So, it's not a new issue, and it shouldn't be a surprise.
Look at the 'recruitment' that FA just concluded; it ran for months, no one got as much as an acknowledgement for their interest, the new admins were not announced- they just added 'closed' to the recruiting ad. I suspect that this is part of a bigger issue- the simmering discontent at FA that has been growing for years.

When we lose the right to be different, we lose the ability to be free

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To be fair this is their first "powerchange/site upheaval" story all year.

Which I think is a record for Fur Affinity. There has been a bit of an improvement in overall controversies surrounding the site itself.

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Apparently FA is being "raided" right now with a flood of gore pics. Like Dragoneer was trolled with pics of his dead cat when the policy was first announced.

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Apparently it was a coincidence according to quoting below.

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It was targeted retaliation for FA acting against hate groups.

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That seems like a bit of an stretch… what's the "confirmation" behind it? That they took some schadenfreude from it, that it included an image associated with them, and that it happened at the same time that quoting_mungo stepped down? Certainly, I could see what you suggest happening; I just don't think the above facts are sufficient proof.

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Confirmation is seeing it inside their closed group. I published thousands of pages of logs from their secret chats before and many other leaks since and I'm just leaking that much for now. Dragoneer has seen the same private source.

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Probably the same troll that's been an issue for the past... I don't know? A few days to a week? Predated the Twitter uproar, at any rate.

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I just hope that their year long 'Star Search' produces some talent here in the trenches.
BTW, nothing justifies meanness.

When we lose the right to be different, we lose the ability to be free

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I confess I'd be more sanguine about the assertions defending Quoting Mungo as "Definitely Not Sympathetic to Altfurry and Just Doing Her Job" if not for this Twitter exchange that popped up in reference to this affair.

https://twitter.com/KaputOtter/status/938418102064250880

To reproduce the exchange:

KaputOtter: The other day I got a warning from [Quoting Mungo] for linking offsite to "adult content" -- "How White Nationalism Courts Internet Nerd Culture"...do you see adult content on here? Cause I definitely don't. So (she's) either an incompetent jobsworth or there's something real fishy going on here.

GC_Arilin: @KaputOtter Quoting Mungo gave you a moderator warning for linking to Deo's article about white nationalism and nerd culture?

KaputOtter: @gc_arilin That is exactly what happened. Hanlon's Razor is still relevant, but it's sure fallen in decline in the past year, hasn't it?

Kaput is right; there is nothing "adult" about this content. What there is is a long critique of the Alt-Right and Altfurry in particular.

Frankly, I consider this at least as disturbing than the original moderator action that set all this off. The two actions taken together sure give a strong appearance of Altfurry sympathies, rather than this being solely about freedom of expression.

- Chipotle

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The rule in question would be COC Section 3.3:

Do not post links to content prohibited by Fur Affinity's policies.
If you are not permitted to upload or discuss the content on Fur Affinity, then do not link to it. Violating this rule may also result in citation under the site rule the content violates.

Mature/Adult links are prohibited on General-rated or public areas unless the content requires a login or age verification. This includes advertisements visible on the target URL.

Exemptions: AUP 2.8, 2.9, 4.1, 4.2, and others by staff discretion.

The article contains a large number of screenshots from a private chat. Sharing such screenshots without the consent of everyone involved violates COC 2.1. Linking Mature/Adult content in General/public areas is one way of violating COC 3.3, but it's not the only one. Kaput characterizing it as about Mature/Adult content might not have been intentionally misleading, but it gives a skewed picture of the action taken. Without the screenshots, it would probably (I'm not going to re-review the whole article now) have been fine.

I will readily own up to being a sucker for rules, but I've never, and would never, looked the other way in enforcement because of someone's political leanings. I get that this rubs some people the wrong way, and I've long since accepted that. Being called something I'm not, however, galls me. I've no love for AltFurry (and last I knew that feeling was mutual).

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Sure, cause we should believe that when evidence is presented to the contrary.

but hey, you keep being you.

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As the owner of another furry social networking site, and in response to the supposed boyfriend of Quoting_Mungo, if i had a Dime, or even a Penny, for every time some sympathy monger user, made up a story about being suicidal, or about running away from home, or the such, then claims their going to do it "right now", then 1-2 days, or sometimes 5 minutes later, i see them back on the site from the same IP, and PC as before but using a new username, that even has the same password hash as the old account. I would have enough money to buy out the Dallas Cowboys. I have seen people who were actually in that state, and its a shame others use those tactics to garner pitty from others by pretending to be such.

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I will note that my boyfriend (and yes, that is absolutely my boyfriend) did not know about the suicidal ideation until the next day, when I had those thoughts back under control. I'm sorry you've had to see people wishing to kill themselves, as no doubt that is something that is distressing to witness, but that does not give you a free pass to trivialize my pain by dismissing it as trolling for pity. If there had not been a serious concern, I would not have quit early.

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In my culture the swastika is a symbol of peace and flow in the universe.
Do not alienate us Asian furries with your propaganda, FurAffinity.

Banning such symbols is incredibly racist, I had pictures removed of this from my FA account and also Facebook, it had nothing to do with Nazi.
Please support against this policy.

I am not national socialist we never had Nazi in my country, though I find it odd you hate the Nazi party because their war crimes as your own forefathers did the same to my country. War is a cruel thing but you have tortured and enslaved many people yourself and your Western culture is socialist anyway, which is what the Nazi want and banning things they teach people not to like while being the same thing... I do not respect the Nazi thugs who pretend they are Nazi but I do not respect someone dressing up as the Knights from Europe who slaughtered and maimed my race for centuries more than your Nazi group.

I think there is two main points here, that this is a terrible move against free speech and affecting and disrespecting cross-cultural meanings, and that the idea that dressing up as one form of soldier is any worse than any other kind. You should ban knights, American terrorist, all your country and regime clothing and all clothing all together because civil war is a thing, too. Bad behaviour should be banned, not identities, not freedom, not free speech.

And besides on this, I don't know about your culture entirely but your word for art comes from Latin artus, and FA is an art site. As art means "to articulate" many sources, then surely people should be able to depict whatever they wish, whether they support it or not. You have a film called "Iron Sky" and war films too, is it wrong to depict in fan art? The film depicts Nazis, portrayed good and bad within their space, it described transforming Nazi and I find that odd that your culture is fine with that though I don't see anything wrong with it since it encourage Nazi to invent a "good Nazi" as senseless as it sounds to me...

One of the earliest big furry comic had nazis in it as like many furry comic of the time it had fighting characters, war and adventure. Artists have depicted from the angle of what is seen as good and evil and provided emotional roleplay and story from both sides, there is "cops and robbers" (popular kids game and game theme e.g. Grand Theft Auto), "commando and Nazi" (popular kids game and video game theme e.g. Wolfenstein, Call of Duty). And is also depicting Nazi in bad light bad within art or depicting those who were forced to be Nazi and their emotional stories?

Now it's not even furry genre anymore... A lot is porn and cute things which I am fine with but remember that furry evolved from action sci-fi to contrast funny animal, in a way furry started as "soldier-ified" cartoon animal and the popular old greats like Usagi Yojimbo, Albedo Anthropomorphics, are not based on background war and fighting themes? If this continue, I think it's clear FA don't even know what furry fandom was a fandom for, it just become cute animal fandom which were nothing new and commonplace... Do note destroy these unique things, that's what Nazis do.

I think Nazi has become to refer childishly (ad hitlerum) in your culture illogically towards anything you don't agree with and immediately you feel like you need to sound truthful by banning anything Nazi too, but the irony is that banning all that you do not like was the Nazi ideology you painted upon Nazis in the first place. To be anti-Nazi in your mind is to prevent those who destroy freedoms, yet you cannot prevent the freedom of such without preventing their freedom. And in the edit of it all you're just going over the same thing humanity has done for millennia, warring, you are trying to prevent one ideology for the ideology you are fed, just like Nazis, anti-Nazis, your ally and your enemy. When instead of all of that you could just encourage and reward people for good behaviour and for as long as furry is itself disliked by the outside, furry is no candidate for promoting that to the public. If no one is hurt physically, and no one chooses to hurt emotionally, then why ban it, if they start gathering firearms and start killing people, I'd agree, but only for that individual. If you told me that furries would be disputing Nazi ideology drama (yes it is, just drama) 10-20 years ago, everyone would have laughed it off, and I remember they did.

This drama is simply another reason why humanity has become an absolute shame for all those before it who shaped the world. You wouldn't have even had your modern internet technology if it wasn't for your "World" Wars, actually a lot of your technology came from Nazis, I suppose you should stop using that, too. In respect to all those who died in the world wars, you weren't even born yet, it wasn't your fight. You don't have a say in what was right or wrong and I've spoken to both who were considered war hero from both sides before they had died and I had so many different opinion, you're actually disrespecting their wishes. So many hate your system anyway so you could see Nazi as an attempt to change that back then, since like now liberalism was at its peak and thus austerity. I'm not going into history but that the European Union office is hosted so many times in Germany among businesses that were grounded in Nazi Germany, shouldn't you be asking who won the war anyway. They like you to obsess over Nazism in the furry fandom instead of your own politicians in Europe and America.

So no, you don't have a say in what is ok or not on the Nazi subject, if you want to be like Nazis yourself. I can see why Neo Nazis exist, they exist because they're the monster your over-consumerist society has allowed to be so corrupt for so long, while some are just soft trolls and other are hard headed thugs, Nazi is an old thing, and I can think of older similar groups. You're becoming the Nazi, Western culture, a mix mash of confused angsty people with no idea or vision of the future. What even is your idea of the future, in the modern furry ideologies or Western culture at all? Many say you want world peace, but everyone had said that for a long time, but with corruption people also want revenge, and with boredom people want change. Why do you expect people to all want the same thing anyway. You are indeed, indoctrinating as per things like this, racist as just like so many of you want to crush race for a unified world in your obscene embarrassing Western utopian image (much of Asia does not want your corrupt ideals and when you start there, like with NK (which you steal oil from on outlying islands) we will equally wage war!) You are becoming the Nazi race, and before you turn the furry fandom into yet another freedom-crushing, anti-peace symbol, polygamous anti-romantic, unicorn-prided hug-a-wahabi, pro-cutesy-no-backbone, human-body-hating transhumanist erotic-target-location erroneous Western scum blatantly racistly remove my culture's peace symbols and label them along the same lines as what you perceive as a cruel warlord race ever again, I will be personally writing to Kim Jung Un to speed up his advances on your ridiculous, laughable, as you Americans call it, fucked-up culture.

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Hilariously this got automatically spam-filed. Not quite sure why, but it probably thought you were trying to sell something.

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It was long, and contained complex, complete thoughts.; No wonder the spam filter thought it was 'not furry related'........

When we lose the right to be different, we lose the ability to be free

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Mostly in the first half. The second half... not so much.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

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This is quite possible one of the kookiest loads of steaming poo I've seen passed off as intellectual discussion quite some time. It seems to justify itself with stereotype, generalization, specious argument, and just plain-old nonsense buried in lack of clarity and a heap of verbosity.

We "don't have a say" in "what is ok or not" on the "Nazi subject?" Friend, get lost. You don't understand the issues involved at all, your abstractions utterly fail to engage with the 21st-century sociopolitical issues actually at play. It boils down to cognitive dissonance, anti-humanism, anti-liberty, and anti-equality attacks launched from safe-harbor of faux-intellectualism and faux-civility. These will no longer be tolerated because they are evil, distracting, and confusing memes.

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Someone's been watching a bit too much Squirrel and Hedgehog it seems.

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Except, you seem to have forgotten, the Arabs collaborated with the Nazis. They weren't neutral. Jerusalem's Grand Mufti not only raised 3 SS regiments of Muslims, he was also complicit in the deportation and murder of Jews.

Sorry, guys. Couldn't let THAT bit of historical revisionism go by. Stand by for pro-Nazi comments by Arab politicians AFTER WWII if necessary.

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Then there is the fact that Mahadji's speech style is remarkably similar to the propaganda the Furry Raiders have been spewing from their anuses. I do believe it is rather quite obvious, especially from the shock style of the writing, a certain Foxler had at least some involvement in the authoring of the above post. ;)

He thinks he is so slick, it is truly hilarious to watch him trip over his own feet as he stumbles from one mistake to the next on his way to his next major face-plant in the mud.

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We're getting into "everyone I don't like is Foxler" territory. I've spoke to him personally, and unbelievable though it might seem...this is just too coherent to be him.

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Pretty much this.

I mean, don't know about Foxler's coherence, but I've seen the "I bet this person I disagree with is a secret alt-account of the person I disagreed with last week" thing happen on other areas of the Internet, and I've literally seen a guy who is paranoid that everyone is an alt of people he doesn't like post about how we need to get rid of all the weeds in order to make the site as good as it used to be, to which I replied that if a Star Wars villain made that speech people would complain it was too on the nose.

The site being what it was, he thought I was defending Star Wars and missed that I was calling him a cartoon fascist.

(Of course, now I sound like Rakuen.)

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You could sound way worse.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

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I wasnt saying he was the sole author, but similarities seemed to be present, i think if his involvement was present, this post was probably a patchwork that his cronies rough drafted, went over several times, refined, and then posted, ive seen such behavior before on their part in attempts to sound legitimate in some of their shitposting. Sorry if i wasnt completely clear on my meaning, i did say "some" involvement. However i am aware that as of late, they have been doing a lot of defense, saving face, trying to step back from the direct nazi references foxler is so known for, and pretending to be legitimate. The formatting of that post too, makes me think it was prepared over some time, gone back over, reviewed, etc. I do agree, Foxler cannot hold up one end of a thought to save his life, and this post is far more "coherent" than most of his ego babble.

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There is a thing called textual cadence, and given from what I've seen of Foxler's style, it doesn't match. Despite their ignorance of history being about par.

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I guess now I need to hide my commission of Hitler holding hands with an anime girl.

Otherwise I will find myself in Gulag.

Well, I'll be...

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Why were you commissioning humans on FurAffinity?

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He didn't say he commissioned it there, just posted it. Maybe he got it from Hentai Foundry? (Though that raises its own questions.)

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I guess FurAffinity would be a good place to hide your hentai collection.

Nobody would look for it there!

Your rating: None Average: 4 (2 votes)

Are you seriously taking me....... seriously?

Well, I'll be...

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About the author

Equivamp (Kile Onasi)read storiescontact (login required)

a Zebra Pegasus from Kansas, interested in star wars, spider-man and food not bombs

Kile "Equivamp" Onasi is the online pseudonym of a WikiFur Colleague, hobby artist, and fursuiter.