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Furnation down, pending copyright violation investigation

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If you hate folks stealing artwork, direct your attention to Furnation's webpages here (and everywhere where your furry artist on Furnation is). Full info on Furnation's webpage.


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Please find something better to do than argue semantics.

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Please learn to differentiate between hack and crack, please.

Unfortunately, supports the original poster's use of the word.

I don't like it either, but complaining about it is as pointless as complaining about the new meaning of the word "yiff".

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Hello, Baloo! =)

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The New Terrorism bill makes hacking a terrorist act.

IE Sibe can get a life sentence for what he did to Yiffnet.

AND the FBI is really looking to prosecute hackers right now.

I have no pity for Sibe at all hope he gets life.

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What did he do to Yiffnet ?

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I don't know about other channels, but at the beginning of October, Sibe and his associates decided to Flood the #NorthUKFurs channel.
I assume he set up his little bots to flood other channels too.

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when folks stealing artwork from artists and distributors. they are less like to post sample of artwork from CDs,Magazines,ect to a web sit. that is very bad for everyone.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons....for you
are crunchy and taste good with ketchup and mayonaisse

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While I do appreciate the position that Nexxus is in, I have grave concerns about his methodology for handling the situation, both in how he has taken Furnation completely offline and how he has posted information on the front page to explain his actions.

Nexxus needs to remember that while he may feel he has all the proof necessary to link this person to these copyright violations, there are still strict legal procedures he must follow if he wants to prosecute and have any chance of his charges sticking. Actions such as posting the other party's personal contact information will not help (and may in fact hinder) his case. Nexxus needs to take great care that while listing his issues with this party he does not step over the line and make accusations which could very well land him in hot water for libel. The legal system works both ways, after all.

So far, I see the actions that Nexxus has taken as being a combination of very mature, informed decisions and rather childish reaction towards a perceived threat. If Nexxus can focus on the former and leave the later behind he stands a very good chance of preventing this individual from doing any further harm than what may already have been done, and coming off looking very good while doing so. If he cannot, he will have shot himself in the foot most effectively.

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While I can't say anything about the legality of all this, not being up on Net law and such, this character comes across as a total cretin. I am friendly with several artists, and for their sakes I hope this crook gets nailed.


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I can understand Nexxus being pretty upset about this, and I can understand him putting up what he did on the main page, but I fail to see how preventing access to the hundreds of websites also on his system is going to help any. Instead, it's likely to cause lots of resentment among his users, as they are now finding themselves being indrectly punished for Sibe's actions.

A far better way to deal with the problem would be to quietly take Sibe to court for his copyright violations instead. If he's been as blatant about them as Nexxus makes him out to be, there should be little problem with the court deciding in Nexxus's favor.

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Thank God all my online work is low-res and free, and folks have to buy high res prints to get quality. But that is just me, and I do not sell CDs or comics. Look, Chris Sawyer is not rolling in money, nor is Grrrwolf. They need the sales from cons just to get by. Sibe is stealing their rent, in other words. He is making it more difficult for a furry artist to keep doing the art he loves. And THAT is a crime.

Nail his ass to the wall

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Sibe might be mentally ill it would explain his sociopathic behavior.

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The one with the subject "Re: Sibe kills Birds/Mice/Ducks?" was particularly illuminating. ;)


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While I am not about to endorse the actions of this Sibe, whoever he is, I find many of the claims made by Furnation of his impact on furry fandom to be questionable. First, computer graphic images are generally poorer quality than good quality printed copies of the same material, even in magazines, and I think most people realize this and if they're serious about their art will want the real thing. Second, many, perhaps most, of those who obtain the images illegally from Sibe and others like him probably wouldn't have paid for the artwork/mags anyway, so they don't really represent lost sales; on the contrary, many believe that pirating in the music and publishing industries actually helped sales of the letigimate versions of the material (through additional exposure and because some who got the pirated versions will then spring for the material legally). Granted, one could argue that the same is not true of furry fandom...

With Sibe in particular, the problem is different. He's obnoxious enough to turn off many who might otherwise get an illegal copy of some copyrighted artwork. I suppose he could be giving furry fandom and the artists whose work he pirates a bad name, but I doubt it since his type are too common in other venues. So yes, let's go after the guy for copyright violations, etc. But lets not overestimate the losses he causes to legitimate venues.

Opposing viewpoints welcome

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You're probably largely correct. This isn't the first time that furry fandom has faced such a pirate; there was a BBS in Canada many years ago whose operator steadfastly refused not to distribute art even when artists specifically asked him not to. Furry fandom as a whole certainly isn't going to be substantially hurt by this.

The idea that a pirate gives anyone but himself a "bad name" is pretty dubious. Nobody gets a Gnutella client, finds a copy of Illustrator and thinks "Man, those guys at Adobe are sure a bunch of wankers."

Like the Illustrator example, of course, there will be people who'll come take offered artwork. But the same logic comes through in both cases. People downloading a copy of Illustrator to play around with it probably would never have used it "seriously" enough to pay for it (and most who are serious would pay for it if they could, because they want the support). And, the majority of people downloading scanned pages of "Genus" probably aren't doing so in lieu of buying those issues--they're doing so in lieu of finding those issues and flipping through them to see what they're like.

This doesn't excuse copyright infringement and I'd certainly go after the yokel for violating mine, to the limit of my ability. But I don't think the material effects of this should be stated as a known fact; at this point all anyone can do is make educated guesses. Based on what we've seen in other forms of intellectual property infringement, the material effects are not devastating--how much the theoretical losses translate into real lost sales seems to vary wildly depending on the field in question.

The bottom line is that nobody will know what impact this had beyond a short term bounce until they see how future mail order and con sales are affected. See how dealers and artists sell at Further Confusion in January. And see how The Company Formerly Known As Mailbox Books does with new stock.

— Chipotle

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Whee, more furry dramedy. *yawn*

You'd think we'd find more interesting issues to go rabid over than some script-kiddie spamming IRC with furry pr0n. Nail him and move on. It's not the end of the fandom.

-- RedFox Whiteruff

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Well, terrorism came to furry art this week. Sibe being the pseudo Ben Laden of*, VCL, YERF and FurNation, has spread his pseudo-"anthrax" warnings of distributing furry art made by anyone and everyone who has printed something or put something on the net.. and just handing it all out over any of a number of IRC and FTP servers. Forget copyrights, forget personal pride, forget meager profit margins of furry publications or websites, forget any misplaced feelings of ownership... Sibe has "dropped a nuke" into the furry community and we're all rushing to get in line to pull the pin. And here we have all the websites rushing to pull down their sites until the danger has passed. Is it only me that sees the irony in all this?

Well, I guess the fandom needed something to talk about... and they got it.

Grace and Peace - Camstone Fox

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Oh, do give it up. "Terrorism?" "Dropped a nuke?" Please tell me you are saying this tongue-in-cheek, because if you are serious I may die laughing.

This whole thing with Sibe is being horrendously overblown by fans, artists and certain webmasters alike in a manner that it is becoming almost comical. This is nothing more than a drop in the bucket, and comparing this against world events of today should just go to confirm how far beyond reason people are taking it.

Reality check: Is copyright violation a theft? Yes. Is this the end of furry art? No. The end of the fandom? No. Get a grip, people. This "adversary" is some kid with a scanner, some IRC software and an agenda to rattle cages and piss off as many people as possible so as to get some attention for himself. He is not a terrorist, he is not a plague, he is a KID exploiting the nature of human beings. Nothing more.

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Please. Sibe is not a terrorist, and I seriously doubt that his actions are going to have any long-lasting effect... unless Furnation remains down.

And the only sites I've seen taken down over the Sibe thing have been all Furnation sites, and that was a decision that was made by the system admin, not by the individual site owners.

Don't get me wrong. I think Sibe is a low-life scum bag who needs to get a hobby that keeps him away from actual human beings and the Internet. Maybe spelunking. But please... Don't give Sibe more credit than he deserves.

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Of course it was tongue in cheek.

And meant as more an overreaction that the community is having over this incident.

Guess I need to include [dennis miller voice] like tags in the future.

Grace and Peace - Camstone Fox

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It was actually meant as an editorial jibe as to how the community is responding. I'll try and include [dennis miller voice] type tags in the future.

Grace and Peace - Camstone Fox

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Actually, he *is* a terrorist, in that he terrorizes people, including continued death threats (which are actionable in some jurisdictions) and large-scale theft of personal property.

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(laughing) Yes, that may help.

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Cam is just too subtle for us blunt folk. :)

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terrorist Ter"ror*ist, n. [F. terroriste.] One who governs by terrorism or intimidation; specifically, an agent or partisan of the revolutionary tribunal (like during the Reign of Terror in France.) (ref: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996)

Ergo, he is not a terrorist since he has no one to "govern"- he's an intimidating felon wannabe maybe, but not a terrorist.

Grace and Peace - Camstone Fox

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~shrugs~ Didn't think I was being that subtle. But with half of Yiffnet down, it's getting harder to be subtle about anything anymore, for fear of either being taken seriously, or having your words skewed out of proportion. Time to "Go to Ground" for awhile, I guess. Lemme know when they sound the "all clear" signal on the civil defense siren. [YES, that was meant to be made in jest!]

Grace and Peace - Camstone Fox

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