Owners of Fur Affinity, FurBuy clash over auctions
The furry marketplace heated up today as FurBuy owner Jurann was "permanently banned" from Fur Affinity for "false threats against users holding auctions on FA instead of furbuy" and "disruption of the community, drama starting and interference with user transactions."
FA's Dragoneer gave his opinion of Jurann's attempts to pressure artists into using FurBuy:
Frankly, I'm sick of Jurann constantly threatening users, encouraging them to "Go to Furbuy...or else!"
In response, Jurann said Dragoneer "[took his] legal advice as a threat," while maintaining that FTC auction guidelines apply to Fur Affinity:
It's a simple fact that there ARE rules and guidelines, and they are quite clearly not being followed on FA at present.
The two site owners were not always in opposition — indeed, at one time Fur Affinity and FurBuy considered sharing both talent and resources. FurBuy would have been hosted on FA-owned servers, while Jurann would have worked to improve Fur Affinity's code.
However, no agreement could be reached. Dragoneer claimed Jurann wanted to be given "the entire server" on which FurBuy's data would be present. Jurann in turn said he did not trust FA's staff or code with FurBuy's sensitive user data, citing the recent note leaks as justification.
We may never know all that goes on behind the scenes at these furry enterprises — or when or where their next clash will be. What is clear is that as businesses compete over a finite number of demanding customers, their battles begins to resemble those of much larger corporations.
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a project coordinator and Kangaroo from CheektRoowaga, NY, interested in video games, current events, politics, writing and finance
RE: supposed FTC auction "rules and guidelines"
All I see from a quick Google search are guidelines for consumers. I'm still looking for the supposed rules. I don't feel like searching the United States Code, and I don't know of many places that show search-enabled text of the current administrative law of any agency in the government.
Am I the only one who thinks that a 'perma ban' should result in the deletion of the users page? Because you can get banned for just commenting on a banned persons' page.
I think at the very least the shout box should be disabled.
Frankly, I have a feeling that Furry Fandom would die of boredom without the occasional bit of drama.
Hey. Hey Dragoneer.
This isn't over what he said. Neer is just mad.
Thank you, FA. Thank you for proving my point that Deviantart is better.
This is what happens when egos collide.
Hey, hey, Dragoneer,
How many times has FA gone down this year?
I really don't see what the big deal is. I didn't see any "threats", it seemed more like criticism. So Dragoneer got upset that someone was criticizing his site and promptly banned the guy? Sure this Jurran guy may be a little stuck up for his site, but Neer overreacted. It's childish and it looks exactly like all the people who think any criticim is trolling. Honestly, there are alot of things people could criticize about Neer and FA. If he keeps these things up, people will start leaving in droves.
Someone once said that mothers will do irrational things if they believe "their offspring" is in danger. I think that extends to the creations of others, or their "babies". For while both Dragoneer and Jurann have no children as far as I know, they certainly consider their websites "their babies".
Jurann's LJ invited people to look into the notes in Wikileaks, while I'm against the concept of it, this permission had me look at and notes to and from Jurann, for if he doesn't find the notes as a bad thing then I would think his notes are open to reading. What I found was that he was asking Dragoneer, directly, about the trend of "big name" artists holding personal auctions on FurAffinity and if he was going to take steps to intervene with them. Which, while Jurann claims FA is violating FTC rules, a furry who claims to work for an auction house, said it does not violate the FTC rules because one has to be acting as a direct third party in the sale to violate it. The interactions on FA are two party, Fur Affinity gets no money from the sale.
The server that holds FurAffinity's ToS is down, but I'm willing to bet that there is a clause against pushy advertising and spam. Or if they really wanted the administration could simply use the broad reach of the 'H' word. Though obviously, this was about how Dragoneer felt that such behaviors were affecting his users. Though one could criticize the suspension and say he should have just had the artists Jerann was talking to simply block him.
But in essence this really goes to something bigger then just one person being 'corrupt', it goes into the pull of the markets. As Fur Affinity has increased in popularity, Furbuy has had its business decrease. On of Jurann's notes pretty much claimed how cool FA was and how he checked it more often then his email.
When you're the CEO of Coke and you drink a Pepsi and say to someone how wonderful it is, at that point you got to think of how to make you product better. I'm willing to bet Ebay is feeling as much pressure to become better as I'm sure alot of people are starting to sell items through their Facebook instead.
But here's the thing as well, it's not just Jurann who has to be concerned about the change of furry market, as you have stated, people could leave Fur Affinity in droves. The day that happens, I believe, is not going to be really political, it's going to be when FurAffinity stagnates and allows another furry entrepreneur to take their services and make them better.
I'm not convinced that FurBuy is less popular than it was before FA. If anything, I suspect it's significantly more popular. You're absolutely right that it is hard for a founder/owner to keep perspective, though.
When you see someone not using your product or service, there are a couple of ways to approach the situation:
* The right way: "What features can I offer or make you aware of that would attract your custom?"
* The wrong way: "The product or service you chose sucks. If you don't use mine, you're an idiot."
Nobody likes being told they made the wrong decision, especially in person, and doing so is not a good way to win users.
Consider the deficiencies of your competitors when designing features, but focus on opportunities when talking to customers.
In practice, most people are open to trying out new things when given a good reason. If not, they'll at least tell you why if you ask nicely. Perhaps they're satisfied and do not feel you can win their custom, Just smile, nod, and wish them well. Anything else is counter-productive.
But one step further, GR.
Jurann isn't using the wrong way, he's taking you're wrong way and completely lying.
"The product or service you chose is ILLEGAL! You're a CRIMINAL! You should use MINE or you're a criminal scumbag."
Somehow, that's even worse than "the wrong way."
Damn 'Neer, when will this suspending and banning of your users for no reason end?
First my ex, then 3 of my friends, Aurora Spencer now the owner of Furbuy?
ugh Dragoneer is of course again starting stupid trouble. One little thing about him and the site goes and he goes all merciless on them. The guy really needs to mature.
From what I have heard too, Dragoneer isn't even a furry... I wouldn't even have an account, if I could delete it.
But FA isn't setup that way, so all I can really do, is just mostly just stay away, and let my account die.
Not sure where you got that impression considering he goes to furry conventions, runs a huge furry site, owns and wears a fursuit, and even draws furry art on a regular basis . . .
That's interesting. I don't know, maybe for him it's more of a power thing. You don't even go power crazy, and you run Wikifur.
I only know that I heard it from someplace about Dragoneer, so maybe the opinion was more he's different from other furs? I do know, he seems to pick favorites, and for a while was letting Cub Porn slide, as long as it was of a certain character. He was also letting Digimon stuff slide a little more then he knew he should. If you're gonna make a rule, then it should be followed regardless on character.
Not signing on Furbuy as something to help pay, rather then this, seems stupid.
I know I would be happy for extra help pay for a site, if I ran one.
Thanks For The Info... you always have such a great amount of knowledge, it's why I sometimes ask you things more directly. ;)
Furries are people, and people are imperfect. Those who run websites (or conventions, podcasts, awards, etc.) are no different. Typically they are no worse, either, but being put on a pedestal by others magnifies everything.
As for FurBuy, sometimes it's a good idea to swallow your displeasure of a another person's actions and deal with them on a "strictly business" basis. Other times, it's not. I think it got to a point where he felt it was better to take action and speak out than continue to let it slide.
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