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San Francisco rapper MC Crumbsnatcher's furry music video

Edited by GreenReaper as of 00:46
Your rating: None Average: 2.8 (8 votes)

As a club-goer most likely to get down to goth/industrial/EBM, I'm not qualified to say much about hip hop/rap. However, I know that MC Crumbsnatcher is a secret goth too, and that's my fursuited ass he's humping at 4:00 in the video, so let's do this.

The San Francisco Bay area hosts many subculture scenes. They bring people together who often stay separate in less busy places. MC Crumbsnatcher's ties might be tagged as spoken word/slam poetry, indie rap, electro, Nerdcore and Homocore. His Facebook page also lists Poo Joke Teller, ruiner of childhoods, and being a trained psychic. Let's add Furry to the list.

Content warning: Video contains extremely graphic sexual language and suggestive dancing.

I was introduced to MC Crumbsnatcher when he and his buddy Wonder Dave helped put on a "plushie/furry" themed drag show at a small bar, one block from my apartment. Out of curiosity, I went in my husky fursuit, with low expectations for something not truly rooted in the scene that goes through the Bay Area Furry List. I was delighted to be brought on stage by an announcer in a Halloween gorilla costume, for a few special barks and a gorilla grope. Wonder Dave turned out to be good buddies with my dear departed old room-mate, Gabrielle (who was a show promoter and board member of Slam Poetry International, when we lived together 3000 miles away in Buffalo.)

Crumbsnatcher's backup dancers were a donkey and a penguin in mass-marketed Halloween costumes, helping him tell a story about a love affair with a penguin. They weren't exactly capital-f Furry, but it was a start. His fun show made him a cool guy in my book. One of his next shows was for the release of his first album, for a few hundred furries at Frolic, San Francisco's monthly furry club night.

When he put out a message asking for music video help, support was enthusiastic. Smash Wolf offered video services from Smashwolf Productions. I hooked him up with costumes from Jovino Bunny, whose company Bunnywarez offers locally hand sewn animal jammies. Other performers included NeonBunny, promoter of Frolic. We all crammed a tiny apartment with 35-40 dancers. Although a lot of costumes came from whatever was available, I'd say the video is made with legit Furries.

Authenticity is a common theme for rap music. So are feuds about it. A short few weeks before the video was released, rapper Kreayshawn put out her own video that rips off furries, using what looks like cheap Wal-Mart type costumes.

Crumbsnatcher's response: "We're coming for you, bitch!" This promises a rap battle of epic proportions.

("Furry" content starts around 1:30.)

Kreayshawn is known for her 2011 song Gucci Gucci, that earned viral internet success. The Wikipedia article about her says:

"Gucci Gucci", according to Kreayshawn, is a song coaxing people to wear their own styles and not succumbing to being a "basic bitch".

Here's the lyrics. She's also known for throwing insults at veteran rappers for being "fake".

I don't know a lot about rap, but using fake furries brings to mind Urban Dictionary's definition for fronting:

A façade. Appearing one way, but really acting another. Misrepresenting yourself.

As a furry who likes to get humped on video, my ass belongs to MC Crumbsnatcher. I call Kreayshawn full of fluff. Here's hoping we see a legendary throw-down between them, to see who truly rules the San Francisco Bay Area's indie rap scene.

For a tangent towards a self-indulgent, yet furry-related piece of news: This week saw the conclusion of a Kickstarter campaign for GaymerCon, "the first gaming and tech convention with a focus on LGBT geek culture". It's due to happen in San Francisco in August 2013. A total of $91,389 was pledged, beating their $25,000 goal by 365%.

Gaymer Con is seeking geek and gaming-related musical performers. I think I know a good candidate... if you do, you should send in a recommendation.

Full disclosure: I was introduced to the founder of GaymerCon while fursuiting, at Further Confusion 2012. I loaned a few grand to help make the Kickstarter video, and I'm on their organizing board.


Your rating: None Average: 2.3 (3 votes)

Too bad I have no interest in Rap music. Interesting article regardless though.

Your rating: None Average: 2.7 (3 votes)

Now, now. We don't own the concept of having animal costumes in videos. Sure, she's exploiting nascent awareness of furridom... but that's inevitable. Shrug it off.

Your rating: None Average: 2 (4 votes)

LOL, you're right. But that wouldn't let us brew up a rap rivalry, and showbiz theatrics to go along with it :)

Your rating: None Average: 1.8 (11 votes)

Doesn't this site have any content rules? This is not fit for public consumption.

I mean, seriously, not even a warning?

Ok, now I see the warning, in small print. But this still has no socially redeeming value, what so ever.

I really don't care if "Legit" Furries participated. Or if this is actually a commercial video. Or if pop culture has really sunk this low. Flayrah ought to have more dignity than this. Furry Fandom ought to have more dignity than this. Heck, rap musicians should have more dignity than this.

And this is not what happens when adults get lonely for Casper!

Your rating: None Average: 2.9 (7 votes)

Why do you say this is not fit for this site? Are music videos not allowed on here? Or is it talking about furries that isn't allowed on this site?

Your rating: None Average: 2.5 (6 votes)

Actually, just read the about section for Flayrah. I've posted below what I copied directly from that page.

And upon reviewing, I feel that Patch's review of this music video, which features news from the fandom, as well as a review of something fandom-related, as well as an opinion of fursuits in music videos, and a link to original fictional content (as well, the article is original), is EXACTLY what this site wants!

I may not like to read about Pokemon games or My Little Pony videos, and may feel that they arn't fandom related, but I'm not going to go on those articles and tell those people they shouldn't post them! If it's the gay thing you dislike, feeling that seeing gay subject matter offends you, my opinion has always been that I personally don't mind straight people, as long as they act gay in public! If you are really straight, then you need to ask your male friend to pretend to be your lover and dis your wife in public, and only hold hands with men. And if you make any art, it has to only feature homosexual content, otherwise your straight ways might offend me and your lifestyle may force my children to come out straight.

Thank you so much for posting this Patch!

What we're looking for

News and features - First and foremost, Flayrah is a news site. From the closure of a furry convention to an in-depth report on the latest fursuit tourney, artist interviews, or the release of a new race on Furcadia, we provide timely, factual news on topics our readers care about.

Reviews - Read, seen or played something fandom-relevant, and want to let others know what you thought? This is the place.

Opinion - While rare, well-considered and argued opinion pieces have a place here, particularly those addressing current issues. Please write these with care, and in such a way that they can be easily distinguished from news articles.

Fiction and artwork - Flayrah is not an art archive, but we will consider publishing high-quality fiction and artwork (esp. editorial cartoons).

Original material - Flayrah aims to be a source of original material. While some content may be derived from elsewhere (link your sources!), we encourage submitters to at least rewrite the story in their own words and add context for those unfamiliar with the topic.

Your rating: None Average: 2.2 (5 votes)

Umm, I think Perri doesn't like the humping, actually.

I will say I sometimes feel I put a little bit too much of myself into my Pokemon and My Little Pony reviews, but then I remember I've never posted videos of a rapper dry humping me, and I feel better.

Patch has problems editorializing on one hand, but he does have unique voice around here, on the other. He definitely balances out the rest of us rather stodgy Flayrah posters, so that's a good thing.

Your rating: None Average: 2.2 (6 votes)

Umm, I think Perri doesn't like the humping, actually.

You'd be mistaken about that. I'm not offended by dirty dancing at all. It was my ears that were offended, not my eyes.

Your rating: None Average: 1 (2 votes)

Ah, rap lyrics.

I really have nothing to add besides "Ah, rap lyrics."

Your rating: None Average: 1.8 (5 votes)

I see your point. But does the fact that rap lyrics are commonly filthy these days make it appropriate for a "safe for work" site to be conveying rap filth without consideration of the site's rating? That is the question.

Whether this type of filth is common in the youth culture of today or not, this does not change the fact that some people here are 50 years old or more, meaning this is not specifically a youth culture site. That makes this mixed company, in which stuff like this will never be considered normal or appropriate, as much as folks like NeonBunny might wish to push for it to be.

Back in the day, we all dug our George Carlin and Richard Pryor records. But they were never to be played in mixed company - not unless they were appropriately censored. But if you censored this rapper, the track would just be one long bleep. There is literally nothing here that can be shared with mixed company or be considered safe for work - however you want to measure a standard of content that defines a site as a provider of general community information or a supplier of filth.

Your rating: None Average: 2.5 (8 votes)

Hey bro, your moral high horse is looking pretty lame with that saucy fuck bunny avatar riding on it.

I don't think they'll let you in the good ol' days rah rah america main street parade with that.

If you think this is filthy, you should probably get up from your computer and waddle outside some time. Filth doesn't have much to do with people dressing up and making something creative together, or writing rhymes about consenting adults having fun with each other.

You should probably see a shrink if this is what you do for creativity. Preachy criticism is a 2 way street, my friend ;)

Your rating: None Average: 2 (4 votes)

When you're actually able to read the story that illustration goes with, maybe you'll have an opinion that matters to me.

Your rating: None Average: 2.6 (5 votes)

Ooh, catty! Maybe someone would want to read your mentally damaged fantasies, if you didn't sound like a shut-in who hasn't been outside since 1970.

Your rating: None Average: 1 (1 vote)


This subthread was not my fault.

Your rating: None Average: 2.3 (6 votes)

Prudes, preachers, and moralistic screechers must be obscured, marginalized, mocked and upstaged by the uncompromisingly fabulous, by all means necessary.

Your rating: None Average: 2 (4 votes)

This world would be so much better if people would stop marginalizing in general and understand what's going on before making statements for the goal of simply trying to marginalize.

But I guess that's just the world we live in.

Your rating: None Average: 2 (5 votes)

The world would be a better place if people who unapologetically break the rules would be banned like they're supposed to be.

Your rating: None Average: 1.5 (2 votes)


This article just made it to featured status, so, uh ... I think Green Reaper has picked a side, here.

Sorry, Perri, I can't say Patch won this argument, but you certainly didn't.

Your rating: None Average: 1.3 (3 votes)

Green doesn't strike me as one who takes sides. But he does strike me as one who knows a potential boost in site hits when he sees it. I'm notoriously good at that. Green can't lose with me around.

Neither can MC Crumbsnatcher. By the time this makes the rounds of the Furry gossip mill, MC Crumbsnatcher will be a household name.

Strangely enough, just by entering the range of my knack for firing shots that are heard all the way around the internet, I have possibly made MC Crumbsnatcher part of my art, and thereby justified the video in a way that Patch or Neon never could.

But, don't worry. If it seems like a loss for me now, it's bound to turn into a win when this all ends up in Spectral Shadows. You can't write well about internet hell unless you travel through it, frequently.

Your rating: None Average: 5 (1 vote)

Featured status is determined by an algorithm. The most recent eligible article is skipped because it is already likely to be on the front page, then the next 29 are randomly shuffled and six are picked to display in the header.

This post is, however, an excellent test of the comment moderation system. Certain posters are burning through their karma like there's no tomorrow.

Your rating: None Average: 2.3 (3 votes)

A good moderator would remember that this is what rules are made to prevent and would have either deleted or modified this article to prevent this kind of conflict. Remember, this is all happening because no moderator was willing to un-embed the videos and replace them with the usual links. Therefore, this article is getting preferential treatment to provide the stage for a flame war. I just hope you find the entertainment value worth it.

But there is nothing really to be learned from it. It's your site. You set the safe for work standard. And I'm sure no one in their right mind needs me to point out that these videos aren't safe for work. That anyone would even question that they go too far is ludicrous.

Change the rules to anything goes and I'm cool with this. But you set the standard, and I really don't appreciate it that you don't try to back me up when I try to live by it.

That's how I feel. If it wears out my karma, I can't do anything about that.

Your rating: None Average: 2.3 (6 votes)

This world would be a better place if bland conformists stopped trying to hold back freaky and fabulous people with more talent and guts than they have.

Your rating: None Average: 2.6 (5 votes)

Banal rhetoric about tolerance won't make prudery a virtue.

Your rating: None Average: 2.3 (4 votes)

Would you stop preachily preaching about preaching for five minutes and remember this quote from a fictional preacher:

"Are you so much a fucking loser, you can't tell when you've won?"

Your rating: None Average: 2 (3 votes)

No human being is more virtuous then another, if you want to make this debate a spiritual war of who is better then the other, I have no interest. The only thing that should be addressed is what is "NSFW". If we don't have that discussion, then this whole debate will just happen again in the future.

Unfortunately like most political/preference disagreement both sides have now so ingrained their position with their personal identities (anthropomorphized if you will) that now both sides feel to show any temperament is to essentially commit suicide.

That's not virtuous, never has been, that's why they call it politics.

Your rating: None Average: 2.3 (3 votes)

Fine, let's put the video up for a pole and see how many will say it's safe for work. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they play this stuff at work 8 hours every day in this era.

Then put up another pole to see how many think Green Reaper should enforce his own rules.

Hey, if the votes come out against me, I don't have a problem abiding by the results. But the people have to make their position known. It's not really for me or Patch to say. I was just going on the common assumption that rules is rules. But I guess even that's a silly assumption in this day and age.

Your rating: None Average: 2.6 (5 votes)

Perri takes poles? Isn't that what you've been whining about? (whoosh!)

This is someone else's blog. You have contributed 0 articles.

You have some hobby writing you have been trying to do since the 70's (but still can't spell "poll".)

Instead of working on your own, or contributing here, you're here to hate on others' contributions.

This is shameful for you. I feel sorry for someone who must feel so inadequate about their talent and life.

I supported and shared this project to help friends, with their fun thing they did for fun. So did all the dozens of others who helped. When you hate on them, you deserve to be mocked until you stop.

Making a friend in real life might help you change your problems, but hating more won't.

Your rating: None Average: 2.3 (4 votes)

You know, I used to feel good about my support of the gay rights movement, until I met you. I am now seriously considering withdrawing that support. Because, if you and your rapper friend are to be taken as fine examples of what gay is all about, the idea that you should be given unlimited freedom to spread your filth at everyone else's expense is certainly not something I want to share the guilt for.

I hope your fellow gays are real proud of the way you blithely alienate their supporters. I hope they're real proud of the way you insure their issues will always be defeated. Because their conservative enemies will always have you and your rapper friend to point to as such fabulous examples of what gay is all about.

I thank you so much for teaching me the folly of my foolishly idealistic ways. Imagine me going around thinking that gay people were just normal people who deserved to be treated like everybody else. I had no idea they were all such fabulous perverts until you and MC Crumbsnatcher stepped forward to represent them.

Good job. Your video is indeed art if it can accomplish this much social change in a mere 5 minutes. It just never occurred to me that the object of your presentation was to set gay support back 40 years.

Your rating: None Average: 2.1 (7 votes)

When are you going to follow through on your tear-stained whine about quitting this site?

Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

That will only get rid of a problem. You're not a content provider. You're a content ruiner. You can't dodge this accurate description of your role.

You've never contributed an article. You just sit there and try to ruin them with lazy, intellectually bankrupt whines about filth.

OK, let's talk about filth.

Other people feed this site. Your role here is the role that bacteria plays in the colon, digesting food into poop.

Probiotic intestinal flora and good poop are healthy.

You're the kind of bacteria that just makes inflamed hemmerhoids and angry diarrhea, until you're flushed out of the system.

Flush yourself away now.

Your rating: None Average: 2.4 (7 votes)

I'm a Furry fan. If that's what you think of Furry fans, maybe you're the one who's in the wrong place.

And, yes, I have offered contributions to this site, as well as the entire fandom. I'm letting Crossaffliction write them up, because frankly, I don't have the time with all the other work I'm supposed to be doing. (Not to mention the time being wasted by this stupid discussion, which won’t stop appearing in my inbox no matter how many times I check “Send no Emails.”) And I don't have the ego to be comfortable blowing my own horn, but you’re obviously not going to let up until I defend myself. So take this, brother, may it serve you well.

I work my tail off for this fandom every day. In fact, I practically give my whole life to it. And it might surprise you to learn that some people in this fandom are actually grateful for the efforts I put out.

I work for the likes of them, not the likes of you. So you just go ahead and dis me all you want. Belittle the things I struggle to accomplish. Make fun of my having lived longer than your promiscuous lifestyle is likely to allow you to. I couldn't care less if a worthless sleaze promoter like yourself doesn’t appreciate me.

I'm appreciated by the people who count. And if you ever want to be one of those, I suggest you start exercising your atrophied brain just enough so that you can actually read and appreciate the works of the people you're trying to drive away.

If you could take the time to get off your stupid vendetta, you might find out that I actually defended the Room 366 video, I’m a member of a major Furry gay support group, I have gay characters in my stories, which have titles that include “Backyard Yiff Education Class” and “Furry Fetishes.” You can even find naughty pictures of my bunny character online if you look hard enough.

Sorry, a prude is a term I’ll never be able to qualify for. I just have enough respect for my fellow furs not to shove smut in their faces in places where they’re not expecting it.

It’s also ridiculous to suggest I’m offended by the gay content in your video. I’m totally down with high quality gay content. But I notice that both here and on YouTube you were ready and waiting to silence all critics by suggesting they were anti-gay. You’re apparently a kind of animal I’ve never encountered before – one who demands approval without care to whom you’re bashing. You’ll bash gays, gay supporters, or even people with no opinion at all on the subject as anti-gay if they don’t approve your smut.

Oh, wait, I have encountered that mentality before. In trolls. Unreasonable lot. Not supposed to feed them. Hope you’ve enjoyed the nibbles. My bag of troll food is empty. Have a nice day. ^_^

Your rating: None Average: 1.6 (7 votes)

Tl;dr: so very frustrated. Hasn't had sex since 1975. UGGH!

Your rating: None Average: 2 (4 votes)

hating? Hating? HATING?

I don't know who's hating more. It seems like you though. You've got a wall of ignorance that's almost thicker than the dick described in that video.

Your rating: None Average: 2.3 (6 votes)

Crying about being misunderstood won't justify your invading this topic like a parasite.

You haven't contributed anything of your own, or given even a bit of informed opinion. Crying about "ignorance" is a non-sequitur.

There's only one reason you came here. It's to play teenage toady for a prudish, out-of-touch old shut-in, with nothing better to do than whine about the good ol' days and how she doesn't get it now.

Couldn't you pick someone better to suck up to? (Suck is the word for what you do).

Your rating: None Average: 1.8 (5 votes)

No, I'm quite happy with who I've cast my lots with. And if you don't like it, well then you can just kiss my natural white ass.

Your rating: None Average: 2.3 (6 votes)

You seem to know a lot about kissing ass. Not much about anything else.

Remember, she's a 50-year old shut-in. She can't help you lose your virginity, no matter how much you want that sexy bunny avatar.

Your rating: None Average: 2 (4 votes)

You know, it's quite interesting that you believe someone who comes in to defend a friend is sexually motivated. Perri's initial comment was put up on September 9th. Your IRL friend's was put up on September 12th and the initial accusation was one of homophobia. If that post had not been put up this would not have festered as it did.

You didn't step in until alot of people were calling foul about that. You are angry about another stands up for their friends while you stand up for yours. It is a sort of hypocracy.

In my experience those who make an accusation such as the one you have made are actually placing personal motivation onto their opponent. Therefore, I think you too are showboating because you have a more personal attachment to Neon. I say this because for the three days that Perri's comment stood and Neon's wasn't here you said nothing. It was only when Neon arrived that you suddenly got angry.

I have no issue with this. But if he really does love you, and really sees you as a friend you don't have to go rabid on his behalf. Be your fun loving self. Don't let fear of loss turn you into a monster.

Your rating: None Average: 2 (4 votes)

I have nothing to do with an independent person's decision to comment, dumb ass.

Date of commenting has to do with when emails arrived in my inbox from multiple comments, not some other inane theory of yours thats way off the mark as usual. Otherwise perris prudery would have been ignored like it deserves.

Why do you keep making shit up? Its like you're begging to be corrected. You have a chronic problem with that.

I believe i mentioned Neon once in this whole thread and that was in response to your persistently dropping comments about it, not my rush to defend him. Your white knighting accusations are the wish of a drama monger. "Step in?" Did you forget i wrote the article in the first place?

I did not address homophobia once. The issue is prudery. Prudes can simply fuck off. Their opinions are not worth a second of consideration as valid criticism.

BTW, why are you white knighting for perri's little plecostamus? She is clearly calling in a complete outsider who doesnt belong here to mess around with the actual site members.

Your rating: None Average: 2 (4 votes)

Just when you thought it was safe to check your inbox...

Look, Patch, as you pointed out, this battle was won before NeonBunny even showed up; Perri was complaining about content on a furry site. Furries would've defended you if you had posted a rap video from MC Iliketofuckkids.

Unfortunately, NeonBunny is an idiot who drug homosexuality into a debate about profanity; he lost, but Perri still certainly didn't win, and you certainly didn't lose.

Now, however, you're just beating a dead horse, and worse, you have proven to be hypocritical by calling Perri a prude then attacking what you call "murder entertianment," proving yourself just as prissily prudish about violence as Perri is about profanity.

You still won the argument, because the video is up, but you would have won if you had done nothing. Now, you won't shut up, and you are hurting your standing in the eyes of your peers. Viciously attacking Sonious is not what you want to do.

You won the battle. If you continue fighting it, you may lose the war.

Your rating: None Average: 2 (4 votes)

you have proven to be hypocritical by calling Perri a prude then attacking what you call "murder entertianment," proving yourself just as prissily prudish about violence as Perri is about profanity

Someone has a problem understanding what "2-way street" means.

Here, I'll quote from below to correct you.

If there's something wrong with consenting sex (there isn't), murder-mongers don't get to cast stones. We're not having a crusade against murder cartoons, we're having a 2-way street.

When the prudes are done crying about sex, their own offenses will not need to be pointed out.

I will happily view cartoonish violence as much as sex, however you can not have a double standard about this.

Your rating: None Average: 1.8 (5 votes)

The link you provided (and its kinda creepy you'd just start Googling your opponents for weaknesses to begin with) was not very cartoonish. I mean, other than it was a cartoon, but you know what I mean. Or not.

My point is you were obviously offended by it; bringing it up and not being offended by it wouldn't make much sense. Your entire point in bringing it up was that it was offensive; this is less a two way street than a fourlane highway. Pointing out that Perri has a dark side doesn't excuse yours, nor does it invalidate Perri's good points anymore than yours invalidates, uh, yours.

Too many pronouns.

But this is, once again, off topic. The point is you're not winning this fight. You're only digging a hole that is increasinly looking like a grave.

Your rating: None Average: 2 (4 votes)

You meant, it's "creepy" that someone would put a link to their stuff right on their profile here, then complain that it got looked at.

you were obviously offended by it

Speak for yourself, not for others.

Your rating: None Average: 1.8 (5 votes)

Oh, come on, you big baby.

The big mean bunny girl isn't here right now. Nobody's attacking you. You have a right to be offended if you want to be offended. It's offensive.

But we can let it go.

Okay, we're going to try something. Is there anything you want to tell me. This about anything. Articles. Comments. Religion. Politics. Dick size. It's all on the table. Hell, telling me this is a stupid post is probably a good start.

Your rating: None Average: 2.2 (5 votes)

Why do you keep making shit up? Its like you're begging to be corrected. You have a chronic problem with that.

At least I said "I think" before I said my theory. You and you friend lay accusations without even that courtesy you instead say things as:

She is clearly calling in a complete outsider who doesnt belong here to mess around with the actual site members.

While we're on this quote. Flayrah, or furry for that matter, isn't some exclusive club. People come and go for varying reasons, those reasons are their own.

In Flayrah this happened more notably with the Healthcare diatribe. Some visitors Voted on articles on a site they wouldn't give two dimes about on any other given day. If anyone has any right to complain about people coming in and messing with the site it would be GreenReaper whose article was buried in a sea of confurative attacks. But he didn't. He accepted that perhaps politics is a contentious topic that would cause such things. He didn't accuse and rant about "outsider opinions".

I don't care if someone is "prude" or "crude", in fact I believe everyone is both. You claim to not have to be prude, then how do you function in society? I know if I acted crude around co-workers or family on a regular basis that would ostracize me from them (even if those acts were straight in nature). So I am "prude" until I know it's safe to do otherwise. Sneak in a little "crude" here and there because it's a human thing to do. I've found it even more fun in that I can sometimes tell a joke that is above rating for company and get away with it because it's hidden in such a way that adults would get it, but the children do not yet.

Preferences and culture aside: there is no way to sugercoat "the reason" I'm taking "their side". Of the two, you're the one being an asshole.

I say this with no hate, I say this as a matter of fact that is clear and evident to anyone who wishes to torture themselves by reading this thread from beginning to end. You can claim me false but if you were to take the time to hire all the linguists in the world, it's clear who was being combative with their language.

I mean as a human being how do you think I'm going to respond to a "why are you one their side and not mine?" when you started that very comment with:

I have nothing to do with an independent person's decision to comment, dumb ass.

Can Perri seem whiny at times? Sure. But most of her comments were about content not the people behind it. She doesn't care for rap, you don't care for the 70s era. You and your friend were the ones that transformed that relatively small cultural dispute and changed it to an attack on a person. At first Neon subtly with a "...if you're homophobic" and then you with "You're a shut-in".

However, the biggest and most thing that turned me off to your whole argument was how you are trying to pretend you're better then everyone because of how you choose to live your life. Everyone feels that the way they live their lives is better, that's why they do it. But the difference between decent folks and pushy zealot assholes, the very ones I'm sure you probably despise on a day to day basis is that they don't shove it in another's face pretending that the other is less then them because they don't believe in something you do.

You're no better then the preacher on the pulpit convincing their disciples that atheists are mean and nasty and sad because they don't have Jesus. You're no better then the person that says that everyone should be married to a woman because it's what is more "virtuous".

Being religious does not makes someone better then someone who is not religious, nor does being atheist make one better then a theist. Having lots of sex does not make someone better, and NEITHER does having no sex. People who claim otherwise are assholes, asshole.

The freaks of this world should be ashamed if you are their spokesman, you are doing the very thing that they despise in the prudes. You put yourself a god damned pedestal. So how are you any different than them?

And that is the answer to that question.

Feel free to continue being an asshole. If you choose to do so then I will have little interest in anything you have to say. In fact if you reply to this with anything; positive, negative, don't care the only response from me will be a addition of you to my block list. And I'm sure I will not be the only one. It's time for silence.

That is all, good day.

Your rating: None Average: 2 (4 votes)

tl;dr Drama-monger doesn't like being corrected. Won't admit that the prude dragged in a toady. Still can't give any legit defense for prudish attacking, instead of turning off the video and leaving no comment.

And her flouncing lacks style.

Once again, This is criticism, where writing about art is art itself.

This is what's going on here.

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She doesn't care for rap

Actually, I do like rap, when it's good rap. Like this.

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Hey, Perri, you paid me a compliment up there, so thanks. I did post a link to your article in Newsbytes; unfortunately it kinda got buried by Newsbytes about FA, but it'll be in the monthly archive. And I do appreciate the response to the article in general.

I think it's important to realize you probably hurt Patch's feelings here, and he has basically been lashing out in anger about. I know the feeling; I went on a day long bender recently over an article gaining one stars until it folded (and I note that another has gone down, though that most likely due to "anthropomorphic" issues rather than hostile intent, which is actually kind of funny when you think about it).

That being said, I think it's pretty clear you fought the cleaner fight. I still say you didn't win, you just fought better. But you were fighting an uphill battle, anyway. Jesus Christ, we've been on the opposite side of this fight in the past if you think about it. You really like the last word, I've noticed, which hasn't helped Patch's emotional state.

He's a recent contributor, but I believe he's better than this. He's also a bit more political with his stories ( he literally once turned a cute animal piece into a call for political activism), and especially political in the realm of homosexual activism. Basically, someone prone to overly emotional reactions to accusations of immorality, due to the nature of his political enemies ' usual rhetoric. You kind of hit him where it hurts.

I have no idea if you "brought in outside help" or not, but I'm not even sure if that matters at all. Hell, expect a lot of five stars on a certain comic review in the next couple of days, because if asking your friends to take your side is wrong, I don't want to be right.

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I did give a friend a link to the article, as he had recently been complaining to me about a similar issue. Though I by no means told him what he should say. Most of what he said was unintelligable to me - some new pop culture dialect I'm unfamiliar with, apparently.

I also posted in my journal that there was something going on at Flayrah that was wasting my time. Though I didn't link the article there.

But, it's a public article. Anyone with an opinion can chime in, regardless of whose friend they might be. It would never have occurred to me to make an accusation that there was something inappropriate about Neon Bunny supporting Patch.

As for who won, I never look on this sort of thing as a personal battle. For myself I have nothing to prove. The question for me is, did the fandom win? I think this might have been a rare victory for the fandom. If so, I’m quite proud of that.

I think it’s great that we have a fandom community that encourages people to not have to hide what they are in a closet, but that doesn’t mean it’s appropriate to just go running amuck and start pasting smut all over our safe for works sites. After all, it’s not like we don’t have plenty of sites where their smut would be welcome.

If folks like Patch don’t respect the people who give them the freedom to come out of the closet and work with them so that everyone can be happy . . . Well, the best they can hope for is to make everyone who gave them that freedom go away. And when we’re gone there’ll be nobody left but them, which means they’ll basically be back in the closet again, totally isolated from the rest of the world.

They need to realize who their friends are and stop trying to make enemies of us.

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Is all you can do insult?

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If it looks like a duck, call it a duck.

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I have to agree with her about rap music. Sure, if two bros or whatever want to come together and write music, that's fine and coo'. But the thing you're not gettin' here is that she's saying this content *might* not be fit for this site. You be up in her grill givn' her static for the Schoolyard Massacre picture, but remember this, Fur Affinity is a place where Not Safe For Work and Safe For Work ideas co-exist. What's even more, the site has up a system where you can choose to not view NSFW material and non-users cannot see it. That picture has an appropriate rating on it, and belongs on an appropriate site. You also fail, sir, because that picture wasn't drawn by Perri, but rather her friend that she commissioned. There's nothing wrong with violence, or blood. But hey, according to you, maybe I should see a shrink if my character pulls a bloody knife out of his chest and throws it at an assailant, killing her and making a bloody mess.

Look pal, you can justify this how you want, but dirty lyrics and content are still dirty lyrics and content. What, will you bitch to the rating board if they come along and label this as "dirty"?

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The juggalo-speak isn't doing much for me, just so you know.

she's saying this content *might* not be fit for this site

Nope. The rules train left when she got on the judging "filth" and "rap isn't art" track.

givn' her static for the Schoolyard Massacre picture

People presenting murder-entertainment don't get to say, consenting adult sex = filth.

You also fail, sir, because that picture wasn't drawn by Perri, but rather her friend that she commissioned

Invalid. Artists have been commissioning others to accomplish their visions and keeping the credit since before Michaelangelo did it.

There's nothing wrong with violence, or blood.

Refer to above. If there's something wrong with consenting sex (there isn't), murder-mongers don't get to cast stones. We're not having a crusade against murder cartoons, we're having a 2-way street.

dirty lyrics and content are still dirty lyrics and content

It's called personal expression. Don't like? Turn it off.

Value judgements on art are easy and worthless from philistines and hypocrites. Getting 30 or 40 people to team up to make a music video is hard. I dare you to show your work. BTW, I have artist credits on 35 professional music videos, so put that in your pipe and smoke it before hating on our fun project we made for fun.

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Hey bro, my "Juggalo speak"? It's called personal expression. Don't like it? Turn it of, fool.

So this is your project? Damn fool, why don't you learn how to take a little criticism. I ain't hatin' on your project. I'm just sayin' that I agree -- this song is dirty and if you did censor it for radio play, there'd be nothin' but bleeps every other second. You lyrics be dirty. Simple as that. Can't chill with that? Then suck it up bro. As for my work? I ain't got none yet -- I'm working on somethin' now.

But let me lay somethin' else fresh on ya. When you post somethin', an art work, music video, poem, whatever, you open yourself up for criticism. What if someone critiques your song and says "This blows" are you gonna be all like "Hey bro, let's see YOU do this!" That ain't how criticism works, bro. Some people don't like rap. Oh well. Grow some balls and shrug it off man.

Look, it's not that she has a hang up with consenting adults having sex. Lots of characters talk about it in her own story. But it's how you present it, the way you say it, that makes it offensive. When you're up n' talking about how big your dick is or bein' explciet about how your gonna bed someone well, some people don't like it spit like that. Don't like it? Tough luck. People have opinions. Grow some skin and get used to it, bro.

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Don't fluff yourself up by calling yourself a critic, little guy.

This is criticism, where writing about art is art itself.

This is what you're doing.

See the difference? Now get back on your tricycle, and go do whatever 18 year old whiners with embarrassing grammatical affectations should be doing, instead of white-knighting for terrible drooly old cranks who need to go outside more.

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Bro, I'm not whining. I'm not bitching about how it offends me. I'm just saying that some people are offended sometimes when things are put explicitly. And that's true. I'm not offended by this. If anythin', it's not my type of music. I'm not saying I'm just a critic -- anyone who says "I don't like this" is being a critic. Don't you know the saying "Everyone's a critic?" I guess not. Seems like wit chu anyone who's opinions differ than yours is a whiny fuckin' bitch.

Also, I'm not some 18 year old whiner. I'm someone who's got a lot more respect for people an' their opinions than you'll ever have.

Why don't you learn how to fuckin' read.

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"Waaah. I'm not whiiiiiining. Waaah."

Typing in english would help if you want to be read.

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From the Flayrah about page.

?Mature content - Readers should feel free to read Flayrah wherever they are. You can write about mature topics, but keep posts work-safe.

If it's the gay thing you dislike, feeling that seeing gay subject matter offends you

What really offends me is that this video is just as demeaning to gay people as it is to everyone else, my opinion has always been that I personally don't mind straight people.

Why in the world would anyone form the unlikely assumption that I'm straight? It should be perfectly obvious to anyone that I'm outlandishly bent.

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Also a good point, however one must be aware of the conundrum that appears in this rule and where the boundary should be set for it. There are plenty of adult audience stories reviewed on Flayrah, I'm sure we wouldn't want to bar that. It is interesting that that is in there considering some of the content that's been discussed in the past.

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Well we don't usually post the actual porn; we just review it.

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Don't forget this bit:

What we don't want


  • Mature content - Readers should feel free to read Flayrah wherever they are. You can write about mature topics, but keep posts work-safe.

Do readers think this post goes too far? Was the warning insufficient, or irrelevant? I'm interested in knowing, myself. So far the (single) voter seems to think it was excellent.

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I don't think there can be any doubt that it flagrantly breaks the rule. In spite of there being a warning, I didn't see it until after watching the video. And even if I had seen it, I would still have been taken totally by surprise by the amount of profanity spewing out of that guy’s mouth. If this happened to somebody at work simply because they trust Flayrah to have a reasonable concept of what constitutes safe for work, somebody could be in trouble.

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Perhaps then NSFW videos/pics could be linked to offsite as opposed to embedding (with the link obviously marked NSFW)? That would certainly make it so people don't click something more mature without viewing where things would take them.

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Yes, it actually says to do that in the site rules.

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1- Heh, I expected upset comments simply because it has mature content. I don't care about that.

2- I usually post whatever and allow the site editor to make needed changes, which always seems to be done very thoughtfully and thoroughly (usually little things like adding tags, punctuation, whatever.)

3- Warnings honestly didn't cross my mind because of that. And because of some very gratuitous content about porn that gets posted on here. When I posted I remembered "hmm last time I noticed porn it was something called Creampie... no beating around the bush there!" Then we've got gratuitous bits like dirty pony pictures. So it didn't cross my mind to check policies. Oops, sorry!

4- I'd argue mine is not that gratuitous, even if it is posting "the actual article" heheh... there's no skin in it, and it gives you some primary info about "the making of."

Aside from all that, complaining about profanity? Oh come on. Save time and don't rehash about "I'm not a prude, but"... prude. It's personal expression, not made for general consumption. If it's not your taste don't watch it again. Let it be supported by those it's made for.

It DOES have a positive element of assertiveness above and beyond simple shock value (that's what "homocore" is for)... attack the video, attack the genre too. Is rap music not art? Worthless debate, go yell at kids to get off your lawn instead, grandpa. Yes, art does include naughty words and deeds, and we sure had fun doing them!

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1. Deliberately offending people is not something you should take so casually. It potentially hurts the site and the fandom when you post irresponsibly.

2. Allowing things to be posted to the public before being screened and appropriately edited is a bad policy on the part of the site.

3. Reviewing porn and profanity is one thing. Posting it is quite another. If you just took out the embedded videos, there wouldn't be a problem with anything you wrote.

4. There are other ways to be offensive besides showing skin. It is mainly the language used in this video that makes it un-presentable outside of the cultural venue it was designed for, which is not Furry Fandom. While the artist's insensitive degradation of a classic cartoon many older Furries may have a sentimental attachment to may make it particularly inappropriate for Furry Fandom.

The music that opens and closes this video belongs specifically to my native area of Furry Fandom - giving the impression that this video is to be in some way reflective of myself. That offends me deeper than mere profanity ever could, because there is nothing of myself in this video, and I resent any implication that there is.

Aside from all that, complaining about profanity?

Yes, I am complaining about profanity. It has its place. This isn't it. And no amount of not caring about that is going to make profanity on such an excessive scale acceptable for mixed company. In a social situation you are expected to care about that. Openly showing that you don't care does not reflect well on you.

If it's not your taste don't watch it again.

Unfortunately, when you put stuff like this on a site like Flayrah, the people who are offended by it have to watch it several times, just to be quite sure that there is absolutely nothing there of redeeming value. You are actually forcing the people who don't like this sort of thing to waste valuable time watching it, and putting their offence into words.

Furthermore, it amazes me that anyone beyond their teenage years could be so insensitive and so culturally unaware of the concept of mixed company as to need all this spelled out for them in great detail. In a social situation you have a responsibility of being aware. Don’t laugh it off or chide others for being offended. Learn from your mistake so you can post responsibly next time.

It DOES have a positive element of assertiveness above and beyond simple shock value (that's what "homocore" is for)...

I don't see it. I was not even overtly aware of any "Homo" content here. Certainly I saw nothing positive. If there's any positive message here about gay pride or whatever, it's totally lost under the general offensiveness. Or is the so called positive message that it's somehow ok to be acting like this in public, shoving it down everyone's throat that you're a total sleaze?

If you hadn't said something about it in the article I'd never have known the rapper was gay. And even so, I forgot that the minute he opened his mouth. This is not a video that has anything positive to say to gays. It is made for the benefit of the "Freedom To Be Freaky" movement. If that's the cause the rapper wants to champion, he should label it as such, and not try to draw respectability by mislabeling it as being for the benefit of other moments like Gay, or Furry.

Is rap music not art?

Rap initially had potential to be a significant art form. That potential has been completely disregarded and destroyed. Rap is now a droning form of mass mind control that somehow makes African American people totally happy being called "Niggas," and gay people somehow content with being looked on as unacceptable freaks. One of these days a huge reality check is going to fall on this generation, and they'll realize rap was the worst thing that ever happened to them.

Rap is the best friend of the conservative establishment. It basically convinces you you're everything your enemies want others to believe you are. And to the folks who are out there trying to establish that gays are subhuman and should not be granted equal rights, videos like this are the best gift you could hand them.

As someone who has supported every equal rights movement since the 60's, every time I see a video like this being called "positive" is a head-desk moment.

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Tl;dr "i'm old and don't get outside much any more"

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Good sir, if you're namecalling, it's generally assumed you have no good arguments.

Logical Fallacy. Ad Hominen.

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It is a fallacy to assume that "ad hominem" means an argument is false.

This is known as the fallacy fallacy.

Prudery is a personality-based defect. Therefore, calling Perri a cranky old prude is an eminently valid way to brush off her and her toadies failed censorious impulse.

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Yeah, at this point I'm going to have to say you're overextending and simply devolving into a "what is art" argument. People are going to have such a different view on that, it's not up for flayrah to decide, or the fandom for that matter.

Argue the content and having it embedded is what should be being discussed, on wheather rap is art or not is irrelevent.

But I do have a counterpoint to the embedding argument I just remember and looked for. Ironically it was the article JUST before this one.

This video has mature content on it (noted in a similar manner as this one), there was not complaints. I know we Americans seem to be more okay with violence then sexual deviancy. And by the way Neon, to prove my point from a thread below: this one isn't flagged for mature audiences either.

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The Life By A Thread video is just common cartoon violence. You could show that on TV. Besides that it is a surprisingly excellent piece of animation.

I can see putting a cartoon violence warning tag on it. But basically anything you do to this cartoon you would have to do to every Road Runner cartoon. I can’t see it getting a whole lot of complaints. I’m more surprised it didn’t get more praise.

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Are music videos not allowed on here?

This is not a music video, in the context of something that could be shown on a commercial TV station. What it is is an exercise in pure profanity. There is no song intermittently appearing between the profanities. It is just one pure block of 100% profanity all the way through.

The fursuiters are completely incidental to the human spewing the profanity. I do not find the fursuiters offensive. But the fursuiters are not the reason for the video, or the so called song. They are just there to draw our attention to a performer that anyone with any good taste at all, be they a fur or otherwise, would be disgusted by.

Whether there were fursuiters in this video or not, it would still be something that belongs on a locked porn site. Not a theoretically legitimate Furry news site. If I'm mistaken about this being a legitimate, responsible Furry news site, my apologies. But if I am right, this video demeans this site, and by doing so it demeans the entire fandom.

Stuff like this has its place - in a brown paper bag under the counter, only available to those who ask for it and can show proof of age. Not out in the open where anybody's attention can be drawn to it.

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The rap genre has a history of being profane, a majority of rap is, and shock-jocking is very much something that rappers tend to do to the ire of white people who are typically republicans. That being said, I don't have much ire for it. I just couldn't listen to it long enough to watch the whole video through.

As far as being put on here, that is a good question. Clearly this doesn't effect too much within the majority of the fandom. An unknown rapper who enlisted one furry for their help does not a news story make? Furries engage in creative projects all the time in varying fields. Should they all be put on here or is that what we made personal blogs and FA for?

Some have criticized about localized news as well (particularly news targeted toward a purely American demographic). This certain does highlight the local scene in San Franscisco, which generally the term "socially acceptable" in that area is far more left then the rest of the country for better and for worse.

All in all, certainly not something I would personally post, I don't know the rap scene to know if this person will make it far and if this is actually that big a deal. I wouldn't go so far as it makes all furries look bad, there was only one person in one suit in that video, there are human beings who have done far worse in music videos.

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As there is no nudity, no nipple, no penis, and I couldn't even find any words that would be banned by the FCC making this song warrant adult only viewing, then the only thing left is that it is the homosexual aspect that some could find offensive.

If you are homophobic, then you need to look at yourself and why your views are such. Yes, it is very possible for gay people to think homosexuality is wrong, it's the leading cause of why gay people hide it and stay in the closet.

But one person being homophobic, to me, does not mean that this post does not belong on this site. Rather, I'd prefer to say that homophobic people do not belong on the site, but I do welcome them here hoping they may learn something and change their ways.

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The words Shit and Fuck used excessively, did you even watch the video? If you are familiar with George Carlin, those are part of the "seven deadly words" that the FCC doesn't hold in high regard.

You intelligence also falls into question with how you're throwing the word "homophobic" around like it's going out of style. You make the word useless and actually protect actual bigots by using it so carelessly. There is no doubt in my mind that Perri would have just as much problem with it if it were female/male relationships.

If this does go about the mature rating why do you thinks gays should get special privileges when it comes to NSFW content? Are you heterophobic? See how silly it is to assume one's argument is based on bigotry that has not been established? Oh wait...

My opinion has always been that I personally don't mind straight people, as long as they act gay in public! If you are really straight, then you need to ask your male friend to pretend to be your lover and dis your wife in public, and only hold hands with men. And if you make any art, it has to only feature homosexual content, otherwise your straight ways might offend me and your lifestyle may force my children to come out straight.

You did establish that. At first I thought you were being facetious, but your demeanor leads me to believe you might have been a bit more serious...

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In other words, you’re not really pro-gay, you're only pro a certain type of gays, and anti-all other gays.

You also seem to be saying that all gays who do not accept this foul mouthed rapper as a positive role model are bad and should start following his example right away.

Am I taking your point correctly?

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Nope, you're not taking my point correctly.

I read this as either:

A. You don't like the quality of the video, and because it doesn't fit your standards, you think it shouldn't be posted. In which case, you're just an asshole.


B. The content being about homosexuality offends you. In which case you're homophobic. But I'm reminded, phobic means "fear". You're not afraid of gay people, you're just an asshole.

So, only one conclusion. My point, you're just an asshole. Sorry, but all gay people are here to stay, and we're not gonna hide in the closet because of assholes no more.

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Okay, okay, I do have a confession to make... I was a bit bigoted when it comes to the reason I disliked the video.

It was because the guy was white...

There I said it.

The gay thing didn't bother me, I just like my chocolate darker.

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What the fuck are you bringing sexual orientation into this discussion for?

If Perri Rhoades has a bias, it is against rap; to start screaming "homophobe" on a furry site at a furry is fucking stupid.

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an unknown rapper who enlisted one furry for their help does not a news story make

Don't go making things up now!

The making was announced over the local furry list (BAF) and enlisted many supporters from it. It was produced with filming by a long time furry (smash) who's been in charge of A/V for Fur Con for 10 years. There's at least 4 legit fursuiters in the video (I, Neon, Skibit, the badger), tons of common costumes as well. 4 animal jammie costumes were donated by a furry-owned company (Bunnywarez) who caters to a furry audience. Neonbunny runs the largest monthly furry gathering in the region and was closely involved as well.

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And now his illogical arguments make a whole lot more sense.

Just so he knows we are not trying to get his worked kicked off the internet, nor pushed back "into the closet" as he seems to think. As an artist you're going to have people who don't like your stuff as much as they like it.

An artist is more then welcome to call people who critisize bigots, but unless they have evidence to actual bigotry and not just different taste it certainly isn't going to help them garnish a fan base. No one likes being accused of being something they aren't. As someone who has even studied sexuality to the point of developing their own "drive" scale to run along side Kinsey's to explain where omnisexuality and asexuality fall within the spectrum being called bigoted against sexual groups that are simply not straight is just downright so inaccurate that it just places doubts on anything else he presents (in fact if he waits around for 13 days he would see my article about the Room 366 video going onto the historical debates page, how time flies, but people's perceptions don't).

Getting upset because he thinks there should be no issue with these things being posted onto this site is actually quite reasonable, and that argument could have been made without the baseless accusations. In fact, I was on the fence until that word was dropped the way it was. Saying the right things at the right time is as much an art when it comes to making sound arguments. Saying the wrong things can be disastrous, dropping an atom bomb where a sniper would have been better suited, doing damage to everyone and not just the target of intent.

Saying that, I hope that your friend realizes that all bigotry is formed by blind love toward a culture. They see a culture "under threat" by groups outside their own and they get all up in arms at members of that "other culture" even if the members they attack are neutral, or worse, actually friendly to the culture the angered represent. That being said, Perri's statement of "this video is an affront to all furries" probably went a bit far. However, the thing is this was posted up on the Google News feed and I don't know how they feel about NSFW content being embedded in the articles that are posted there.

Articles like this should be allowed, as you said the creampie one was about worse content, and there have been articles about adult materials pretty consistantly in the past. The difference here is that the art being talked about was put directly in the article here. The compromise I think that would be well suited in this case is that NSFW (Rated R and above maybe) video and picture content be linked to rather then embedded. That'll be left to the editor and writers, but in my opinion that would satiate both the prudes who don't want to see sexual content on flayrah itself and the more adult welcoming elements who want to view the content.

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That's a lot of words devoted to someone's criticism of a criticism. More words than his comments had, I think.

Arguing like this is really unnecessary! Instead of going back and forth, why not back down because you didn't pay attention to what you're commenting about in the first place?

That would be a fair conclusion to make, after the puzzling, incorrect statement that only one furry had anything to do with this. To quote: "I just couldn't listen to it long enough to watch the whole video through." !

Perri is just being a prude.

Nobody should jump to conclusions or pre-judge like that. If Neon went overboard defending it, it's because other people went overboard attacking it. Neon is super supportive of all kinds of awesome furry activities, so go easy, he would get your back when it's really important.

This article probably needed a bigger warning on the top, and that's the only issue here. Bad words are bad? Call the WAAAAmbulance! Someone is upset that I had fun with outrageous fake dry humping? LOL, tough. Loved it, would do again! (It should be a furry made video, though.)

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I do apologize for missing that segment and missing that there was more involvement by the local community then I had previously believed. Also there is the fact that yes, on the intro you did say there was sexually suggestive stuff going on, two paragraphs before the video.

At the same time, people see a video and click before reading sometimes, I guess that's more their fault then not.

This is a fairer position as saying the video is hosted on Youtube as opposed to flayrah itself and it merely is embedded. Some of the image you did link were "Sexually suggestive without nudity" which is where the video itself would probably fall.

It is the first time such thoughts have come up, strangely. Mostly because I didn't know about the "Safe for work" rule until now. Had I known about it earlier would I have noted it on the Creampie? Sure. The irony here is if Neon didn't point at the about page, the argument on SFW would have probably never came up because it was Neon's pointing to the about page that brought up the counterpoint from that same page.

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Sonious, my comments were not directed at you. Rather, they were directed at Perri, who seems to have the attitude that gay=adult content. Just because something has gay subject matter, does not mean it is pornographic. If it was hetero rap, it would be judged completely different.

Note that the link is from Youtube, it is not from Xtube. If youtube deemed it pornographic, they would not allow it on their site, or if they felt it was graphic or adult, would require a user to log in from an account that has been verified to be an adult. They do not.

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Content only get's marked as such by the video provider or the users who view it and flag it as such to Youtube. "Sexual Content > Suggestive, without nudity" is an option. Not all of these things get caught on Youtube, it's all about how many viewers see it. Seeings as this is an indie video, that could be a reason. Though to be fair I am hard pressed to find a rap video with straight (or other gay rap for that matter) with suggestive themes that was flagged. However, I'm no rap expert, so my library of content to check is extremely limited. I'm sure you can think of more straight rap then I can.

However, the point which was brought up (thanks to you're pointing to the about page) was that posts should be "work safe" not Youtube safe. Not everything on Youtube is worksafe I wouldn't think.

There is the age gap too that might be some reasoning as to the dispute as well. The internet has caused lapse on things such as ratings and such. Sometimes it's a good thing, but I think it does harm creativity in others. Animaniacs got away with doing some riske things and it was only awesome because censorship existed and they were able to get some things through the guards. Beings a rebel is half the fun, but you can't be a rebel if there's nothing to rebel against. Artists are aware of this.

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Good point. I should go right over to YouTube and flag it.

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Good taste? What's that? Go eat your prunes, grandpa, and stop being a prude about the kids and their dirty nasty rap music. I'm not going to waste time kicking your bagpipes or laughing at what you put on your victrola. :)

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Hey now that's just age bias, Fred is far older and doesn't seem to be up in arms over it XD

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Hey, whatever is Cool! Groovy! Boss! The cat's pajamas! Zoot!, he quavered shakily.

Fred Patten

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Fred is the most ginchy of us all.

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The irony here is that our fandom was all up in arms over the Room 366 thing, so far pretty mum on this.

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As much as I do find conflict interesting in its own right and trying to understand opposing cultures and viewpoints there isn't much else to be gained here so my suggestion would be to use this:

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"If? this was a hetero rap video, rapping about bitches and ho's, no one would be offended." -NeonBunny, Youtube Comment

That's an interesting theory (presented as fact) however so is that the Earth is flat. It loses it's intrigue when it's easily broken in the modern information era. So without further ado a compilation of people being offended by "hetero" rap.:,2933,61546,00.html

and yes, the Bill Cosby speech too:

Okay, the last one wasn't exactly source...

In conclusion, the hypothesis is wrong and any battle cry are therefore ones made in falsehood. If your rap were straight there would be people offended by it.

I will applaud that this whole thing has me less biased. It has shown me that irrationality and "culture war" mentality really does not have a monopoly on sexual preference.

But more importantly, is what you should learn from this. If you want your rap to be treated on equal footing as heterosexual rap, then shouldn't someone being offended show MORE equality and not LESS? If people weren't voicing at how offended they were at your rap then wouldn't they be saying that your rap isn't worthy of their time to whine? That only straight rappers can have people whining about how disgusting their raps are?

Do you think that homosexuals can't handle the ire of the general public like straight rappers can? Do you really think them that weak and pathetic? I believe every gay rapper who believes in true equality should be ready to deal with the stings and social stigma that other straight rappers have dealt with in the genre since its conception. To expect any less is asking for preferential treatment, and preferential treatment means you are not peers and demeans your quest for equality.

Your behavior against one voice of decent has me truly concerned how "gaycore" is going to hold up to mainstream scrutiny.

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You encounter somebody who has stricter moral values than you do. What do you do?
a) Hurl childish and baseless insults at them, because surely that poor fool doesn't know how to think.
b) Ignore everything they have to say, because there's no way a poor fool like them can make a good argument.
c) Use obvious logical fallacies, because no poor fool would be able to tell the difference.
d) Meticulously research everything that poor fool has done and use it to ruin their reputation.
If your name is Patch Packrat, you do all of those things.

By the way Patch, you're now encountering somebody who's calling you out. So what are you going to do? The same things you've done before? I bet you will, because you clearly lack the intelligence to do anything else. Come on, come at me. I dare you.

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And I double dog dare you to not.

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Link your profile, internet tough guy.

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You know, I posted what I did in the hopes that maybe, just maybe, there might be a single shred of human decency in you, and you would admit that you got carried away with your antics, possibly even apologizing to everyone else. Instead, you said this:

Link your profile, internet tough guy.

Whoa! What a brilliant execution of method B! I should take notes off of you! Since you showed me so much consideration, I think I'll respond in kind:

One of the biggest problems the furry fandom faces is their reputation among the general public: namely, that it sees the fandom as nothing more than complete sexual deviants. The problem with this reputation is that it is overwhelmingly undeserved. The vast majority of furries are not sexual deviants. Perri, for example, isn't. Neither is Sonious, or Niko, or anyone else who commented here. Do you know what they all have in common: all of them see this video as nothing more than filth. You are the only one who doesn't. I wonder why that is? Maybe it's because you're a complete sexual deviant. Hmm... Of course, even if that were the case, why would you be so open about it? I'll just leave this link up here:

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I don't see the video as filth. Adult? Sure. But I don't consider adult expression that. Appropriate for Flayrah? Debatable (all falls under whether embedded videos are part of the article or are just a fancier Link offsite). In my review of 366 I didn't post the video, but that was more for reasons that the artist didn't want it on the public internet in the first place, it just got there anyway. If you want to know how I feel about this conflict that has been going on forever then that would be there.

Do I think this conversation has grown past usefulness, yes. No one really won from this. The "prudes" didn't win because now this article has alot more viewership then they probably wanted. Patch didn't win because the way he carried himself has dropped his comment karma from a healthy 3.0 to almost a 2.0. Now even lower the Xydexx's. Yes his video remains, but it would have anyway should he and Neon Bunny said nothing, only their reputations as people who are who they are but reasonable and unpushy would have remained intact.

This isn't Youtube. That's part of our appeal. Thoughtless comments are dismissed rather quickly as thoughtless. When one's argument is that our comments are being TL;DR and then saying that criticism should look like something that is TL;DR, the argument eats itself to nothingness. Thus why I'm backing off from it, nothing that could be said will make it look worse then it is.

The video itself is far less filthy then the reaction to the "whine". In that I do critisize Stephen Fry's quote. Whining does serve a purpose, it's a way for people to healthily vent. If you look at America there is a lot of criticism and protest. If you look at certain countries in the middle east there is also a lot of criticism and protest, about America. Why do they not protest their own countries more often? Because if they do they are killed, so they protest what they can to feel what it's like to whine without the threat of being slaughtered.

Also, America currently has access to the internet that other countries don't. So they can whine and vent and get it off their chest. A necessary device in these psychologically trying times. You take the internet away, I can bet you all those youth and unemployed would suddenly be starting armed insurrections.

So if you don't let people whine, if you make it illegal to feel emotion, they will get violent or find another place or thing to vent upon. Things will get ugly. Both sides as they drove at each other here continued to push themselves toward that state of being. Driven by the fact that both sides felt they were being censored because they were one starring one another, so in essence they were fighting against being censored while censoring causing it to continue without end. Which is why I feel it not wise for it to continue.

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In a quest for communication and understanding, if the two sides don't come to an agreement for their mutual benefit, nobody wins. It's a loss all around. Patch and Neon may have been interested in beating me down, but I was never interested in beating them down. I wouldn’t have wasted the time if the goal wasn’t to hopefully expand their perspective and show them they don’t need to be going around with those big chips on their shoulders. I think that gets totally lost in all this talk of winning and losing. We’re a fandom. We’re supposed to be a family of sorts, not adversaries.

As for whether the video is filthy or not, I think a lot of people here have spent too much time on the internet and lost perspective on how to define filth. To refresh your perspective, quote the lyrics to someone’s great grandmother. If she doesn't wash your mouth out with soap, it's not filthy. Or, just take a good listen to the lyrics and think about if you'd want to risk it.

I think you’re confusing is it filthy with is it acceptable by the now unbelievably lax standards of the internet and the rap industry. Maybe it's because I’m old enough to be somebody’s great grandmother that I felt the irresistible urge to grab a bar of soap and shove it in that rappers mouth. I'm totally mystified that so many people here are in denial over this. The filth walked up to you, slapped you in the face, bent you over and raped you, and you don’t seem to have noticed. This does not bode well for the future of man.

But, as I said earlier, Rap has been developed into a form of mind control. It seems to have done a great job of convincing an entire generation that this kind of language and subject matter is normal and suitable for all audiences. If I were to go back to the 70's when rap was just getting started and tell people about this future, they'd have said I’d read too much Orwell.

But, of course, you wouldn't be aware of it if you were born into an Orwell novel.

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"We’re supposed to be a family of sorts, not adversaries."
Families are rarely free from disagreements and certainly in some cases there are very much rivalries within the ranks.

And if profane language is the worst thing to ever to happen to mankind and is the only thing Orwellian that happens in our time I will thank all the heavens above. Because the Orwellian things that actually happen in Orwell's novels are far more grave then profanity. Especially ones that were labeled.

Did I like the music? No, so as I said I listened to a little realized it wasn't my thing and moved on. Voicing my displeasure in such a way is a caveat I don't allow myself. Because I know it causes long contrived internet debates based on opinions which I have no interest in engaging in. This is one of the first things a person on the internet learns.

You're never going to convince someone who has given themselves a label, they're not that label. You're never going to convince someone who oogles over Macs that Windows is better. You're never going to convince a person who let themselves be dry humped by a rapper that the rapper's music is garbage. When I use my speech I think about it's purpose. I know my limits by knowing their limits.

When I first saw you initial post and that days had passed, I was thankful, because I knew a bullet was dodged. Then came the first reply, at that point I knew this was not going to end well. Because I know people, I know what their beliefs are and how they handle situations. Now that I knew the way that they were going to handle it, I know given you history how you were going to handle it. And there is nothing I could say or do to stop it.

I know my limits.

That being said, I said up awhile ago that it's time for silence, and I intend to follow through with that by ending discussion on this matter. It's far overstayed its welcome. You can have the last word and respond, but don't be insulted if I don't respond. Basically anything said here even "Patch is the greatest person in the world" will be 1 voted. So at this point there's no reason to converse here. Or on any of his articles. The fact is the actions he is choosing to take, vocal or not are making his position worse and not better.

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Can anyone just get music made and out on I-tunes, jesus lol.

Well, they are kinda catchy actually, if ridiculas, oh well.

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