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Freedomain 'Cult' leader to furry, "Leave your otter family."

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A recent video has popped up on Youtube and was sent to me by a corgi friend of mine. Apparently someone by the name of Stefan Molyneux had interviewed a furry in a video named: The Shocking Furry Fandom Conversation. Yes, Really!. Given the thumbnail containing the mugs of the leaders of the Furry Raiders I thought this person was interviewing them, but as it turns out the content of the video didn’t seem to have anything to do with the controversial alt-furry group.

Or at least that is what I thought coming away from the video. As I did more investigation into this Mr. Molyneux and the methods in which he is infamous I started to come to a bit of a more darker conclusions and questioning the intent of the video. Could this seemingly innocent interview with a random YouTuber actually be a propaganda piece crafted to fulfill as a recruitment tool aimed at furries? A way to take aim at those in the furry fandom and have them join the Freedomain fandom, a group which seems to have been noted as having cult-like qualities by some press releases?

Well I don’t know about all that. In fact, the reason I put the word cult in the headline is simply because Stephan put the word sex next to furry on his video’s thumbnail. And like me seeing those two words together for the purpose of click-bait made me eye-roll, I’m sure seeing his organization being called a cult all the time earns similar expression from Mr. Molyneux. Also, inquiring to Patch, he seemed to indicate that Leon was an actual person and the conversation was legitimate. So, with that in mind, I gave it a second watch and highlighted items of interest, both good and bad in the conversation.

The beginning of the otter; and shakiness in Fandom definitions

It gets off to a bit of an unfortunate start where the furry guest, an otter by the name of Leon, describes furry in just about the worst way possible. When defining furry to Stephen he ended up highlighting things like people who are into copulating with snakes and chickens. Leon does indicate it is a small percentage, and he does try to get a more somber definition across at the start, but he hangs on that chad for a bit longer than necessary and unfortunately that is the definition that sticks with the viewer. About half the time defining this group is focused on the “twenty percent” of furries “like that”, even Stephan himself had to drag Leon out of this cycle of talking about that subset.

After defining the fandom, the guest defines himself, a North American river otter fursona. It was influenced by the portrayal of the species by Brian Jacques's Redwall series, a series he read when he was younger. At this the host inquires about Leon’s family and if he shared his experiences with the stories with them, to which Leon indicated he did not, because when he did they seemed disinterested in his interests. There is a moment when Stephan seems to invoke a facial expression as if he solved the puzzle and found the point he was looking for when going down this line of questioning.

“Why is that?” Stephan asks.

“Because they’re selfish? I don’t know.” Leon responds.

“Nah, see, they’re your family. So the ‘I don’t know’ as you know never cuts it here. If you don’t know things about your family then you don’t know enough to pick up the phone and call me.”

On my first viewing this line was a bit odd to me, but after learning more about Stephan I discovered that discussing displeasure with one’s nuclear family is basically his claim to fame. In essence, he is of the belief of abandoning it if it doesn’t function to one’s specifications. But with a furry, it seems there’s another layer he aims for.

The furry family.

The otters are your family

For the next handful of minutes the host allows their guest to talk about their family life, and the isolation they experienced during those years. After allowing this Stephan makes his hypothesis on his guest’s attraction to otters.

“The otters are your family.” Mr. Molyneux states.

At this point Leon does note the family dynamics in the Redwall story Taggerung and its influences on him. Stephan claims that his attachment to these fictions are because of the lack of the reliable relationships in the real world. So in this vein his connection with that fictional world and their characters were for a lack of bonding with their siblings.

Most furries when talking about their more anthropomorphic hobbies tend to indicate it as just that, a pastime, something to keep their mind busy, to escape or to hang out with others whom also find connection with animal characters and their fun, wacky, and typically morale ideals. This one takes it one step further and indicates that Leon literally ‘bonded’ with a fictional otter family in placement of their own.

In a great spin of irony, Stephan uses zoomorphism to highlight this point. He compares Leon's bonding to the otter family of fiction frequently to a metaphor around the behaviors of young ducklings bonding to non-ducklings instead of their actual parents.

Abandon your otter family, before it eats you (says the bear?)

The last third of the video you need to go through very carefully, because this is where Stephan throws the hook, one that he is quite infamous for. The push for their guest to abandon the bonds in their life so that they, allegedly, can be more susceptible to bonding with his philosophies. At this point Stephan has Leon so enamored by exploiting the vulnerabilities and feeling of neglect in his family life he can make some pretty factually incorrect statements and get away with them. Take for instance the italicized below.

But you’re still in an environment of people [furries] that you can’t connect with Leon, you haven’t escaped… What served you as a child— what fed you as a child is eating you as an adult. And this is very common, the survival strategies as children destroy us as adults, or have that capacity.

Because you’re now in a situation where you don’t want to bond with the people who are fucking snakes [furries] and you can’t bond with people who aren’t because of this subculture.

Speaking of adults, Stephan, Fred Patten is a member of this subculture and is probably 20 years your senior. I can’t speak for how this fandom has served him as an adult, but I fair to guess it is pretty well. And no, he most certainly hasn’t done anything heinous with a snake.

The highlighted line should show you how dangerously Stephan was misinformed by Leon’s rambling definitions at the start of the segment. The host has furries and those that sex snakes so connected in his mind he’s using them synonymously. Any furry who has not had their family history exploited for 20 solid minutes on a live audio conversation would be able to detect that anything made after that statement is as ridiculous and ill-informed hogwash as the statement itself. But unfortunately for Leon he’s been hooked, and he doesn’t even note the error, he is not in any position to have a conversation anymore with all the emotions he was wrung though, so Stephan takes the helm from here on out.

Stephan is certainly an expert in talking with others, but it seems that most of his listeners are those wounded in some degree. This is from his own words, in an interview with the Globe and Mail.

Molyneux has denied that FDR [Freedomain Radio] is a cult. In a 2008 interview with the Globe and Mail, he said, “I’m sure a few marriages broke up because of feminism, it doesn’t make feminism a cult.” The article reports his claim that only some 20 of his young followers had left their families. Noting that four percent of the population was considered sociopathic, he wrote, “If we assume that separating from a truly sociopathic parent would be emotionally advantageous, then we are far below the average.” Not intervening in his listeners’ lives would be “like stepping over someone on the sidewalk who’s collapsed and saying, ‘I don’t want to get involved.’”

So clearly whenever Stephan brings on a caller he believes them to be wounded to some degree. And he is sitting in as some sort of YouTube physiatrist trying to cure the things that ails them. He does this without an actual background to provide such help, so I guess that would make them sort of a snake oil salesman in a way. Which hey, if furries are defined as being snake abusers, they may find use for one selling such things. Guess Stephan and furries have a symbiotic functionally after all!

In fairness he does request Leon seek actual qualified help, but also in fairness he seems to forward him to his own site for help finding such help, which is quite strange indeed.

Leon here was clearly hurt, they came forth with the premise of feeling the wish to get out of the fandom. If that is what they want, and it truly makes them happy, then I think it’s a good thing in general. However, I would hope Leon would look upon the advice given to him with a critical eye, especially as more adults join the furry fandom. You can enjoy life as an adult while not letting go of the creativity and wonder that expanded one’s horizons as a child. In fact, I find, many adults are envious of those that can strike that balance.

I mean don’t we need those to write future otter stories that help people like Leon through childhood? Stories like those must come from the responsible adults amongst us. Saying to not draw, write, or read anthropomorphism simply because you can’t make adults respect you for it, is in essence poor reasoning.

But that’s the kind of reasoning you’ll get when you define furries as those that lay with snakes.

A real reason for furry overlooked

There is an easily missed point in the middle of the hour long stint where things ramble on a bit. The long of the short is they discuss how not allowing someone to have an outlet for their passions can cause resentment. What was particularly interesting about this segment is that Stephan was getting so into talking about his passions that he wouldn’t let Leon get a word in edgewise. I thought he was purposefully suppressing Leon with his rambling and was trying to see if he would lash and try and push his passions in, or get angry with him.

“I didn’t get much chance to speak...” Leon said after about five minutes of the host rambling on about his passions. Okay, that one was out of context and the (ex?) otter was talking about his family not letting him speak and not Stephan, but I found it hilariously coincidental turn of phrase in its own way.

What’s interesting here is I thought this was probably more the cause of furry than any ‘faux (or fox) family’ bond pseudo-science. Both the host and the guest missed this fact. This is where fandom of all stripes stem from, including this furry fandom. Yes, the fictional otter family does not exist, but there are people out there who have found the same outlets and passions and come together to talk about the things they enjoyed that got them through the tough times in youth.

For instance, if you show me a religious person I will should you a person who bonded with their church, or God, because it was the thing there for them in their youth when other institutions failed. Show me a sports fan and I’ll show you someone who saw the happiest moments in their childhood enjoying the spectacle of the Sunday crowd. Furry characters and video games were major staples in my childhood that helped with the stresses of growing up with the kind of peers whom apparently would elect someone like Trump to office in the future. I guess looking at it that way, I’m a little less surprised by the election results.

There’s also the common thread that Stephan, Leon, and myself hold. I see all three of us as self-sufficient bookish learners. This is also caused as sort of an escapist need. One that can help in adulthood sure, but it is one nonetheless. I wouldn’t have any doubts that we all had good relationships with the educational institutions we drove ourselves into while our peers were busy enjoying their less isolated social connections. This possibility was also overlooked in the video: what role does the education system play in our rearing? Our relationships with peers away from home can't be discounted can they? Stephan seemed to dismiss Leon whenever he started to bring them into the conversation.

In the end, furry is not a ‘wrong crowd’, a group to be afraid of, or even a hindrance to one's personal growth. It has the capacity to be just as as bad as any other fandom, sure. There are exploitative individuals in any group of humans. The bullies we grew up with have interests and passions too and they’ll find their way into adult social circles as well. One should not need to abandon their fursona to be a healthy adult, just as one shouldn’t have to abandon music, religion, or other such passions. To ask one to abandon the hobbies and things they love simply for peer acceptance is quite philosophically shallow, no matter the verbose vocabulary behind it.

I guess to round it off with one last question: when one belittle another’s passions because they are childish ‘negatively influencing your adulthood’, shouldn’t that be just as frustrating as having someone just ignore said passions entirely, if not more so?


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The Youtube shown in Flayrah says an error occurred. I can follow the link but considering the length and you pointing out the important bits, I'm not going to be watching all of that. I do still have some questions and observations though.

So who exactly is Stefan Molyneaux? I saw that name come up somewhere else recently but it also didn't say anything about him. What is the Freedomain fandom? You said it's cult like but I have also never heard of them, what they stand for or why the video would motivate anyone to join them.

"When defining furry to Stephen he ended up highlighting things like people who are into copulating with snakes and chickens."

What!? Not only is that completely wrong but snakes and chickens? Foxes and wolves are the stereotypical furry creature. Snakes and chickens barely even feature in the furry fandom.

I remember reading The Taggerung when I was younger. I particularly liked that one because it's one of the Redwall series that doesn't rehash the same plot as all the other books. Not that the others are bad but many of them are quite predictable. The Taggerung and The Pearls of Lutra are the two I can remember offhand that did something different.

"In the end, furry is not a ‘wrong crowd’, a group to be afraid of, or even a hindrance to one's personal growth. It has the capacity to be just as as bad as any other fandom, sure. There are exploitative individuals in any group of humans. The bullies we grew up with have interests and passions too and they’ll find their way into adult social circles as well. One should not need to abandon their fursona to be a healthy adult, just as one shouldn’t have to abandon music, religion, or other such passions. To ask one to abandon the hobbies and things they love simply for peer acceptance is quite philosophically shallow, no matter the verbose vocabulary behind it."

I just think that's a really nice paragraph. Not quite sure religion should be in there though as that is, in so many cases, quite unhealthy, both for the believer and non-believers around them.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

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Stefan Basil Molyneux ( born September 24, 1966) is an Irish-born Canadian podcaster and YouTuber. Molyneux, a self-published author, usually speaks on topics including anarcho-capitalism, politics, race and intelligence, multiculturalism, right-libertarianism, anti-feminism, and familial relationships.

TL;DR he's your typical white nationalist who sees anything as not white or right as wrong.

Molyneux refers to the family that people are born into as their "family of origin" or "FOO". Molyneux suggests that the family of origin relationships may not necessarily be desirable and in some circumstances may even be detrimental and thus for those individuals having suffered abusive childhood relationships it would be advantageous for them to sever such involuntary relationships as adults, or "deFOO". In this way, he views all adult relationships as being voluntary and discretionary rather than obligatory. According to a 2008 article in The Guardian, both Molyneux and his wife have "deFOOed"

he's also an MRA.

Molyneux was a panelist at a 2014 Detroit conference held by the men's rights movement and manosphere organization, A Voice for Men. According to Jessica Roy of Time magazine, Molyneux argued that violence in the world is the result of how women treat their children, and that "If we could just get people to be nice to their babies for five years straight, that would be it for war, drug abuse, addiction, promiscuity, sexually transmitted diseases, ... Almost all would be completely eliminated, because they all arise from dysfunctional early childhood experiences, which are all run by women."

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He goes around saying people need to be deFOOed and is taken seriously?

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

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I pity deFOO

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hey, the alt-right takes anyone they can get. I mean they've got richard spencer, foxler, perri rhodes, et al.

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Lol the left has Yvette Flarca, WMMR The Myers and Chelsea MANning.

Your point?

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That you're a transphobic piece of shit that shouldn't exist.

I don't even know who 3/4ths of those people are. but I mean if you want to keep listing people, okay!

the reich has:

Steven "Racist" Bannon (get it? I'll give a Quest to go on if not)
Donald Trump
Jeff Sessions
Paul Ryan
Mitch McConnell
the KKK
the American Nazi Party
perri rhodes
the Mercer Family
Alex Jones

I'm just at the tip of the iceberg too.

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The Young Turks
Harvey Weinstein
Cop Killers
Black Lives Matter
Hillary Clinton
Linda Sarsour
George Soros
Islamic Terrorist sympathizers
Anti-Israeli Slacktivists
The Laughing Witch
Bernie Sanders
Pedophilia Endorsers
Steve Shives
Black Hitler
Anita Sarkeesian

...But please, go on about how the real problems of the world stem from bunch of 4channers posting frog memes.

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...But please, go on about how the real problems of the world stem from bunch of 4channers posting frog memes.

I see the reich's favorite boogeymen are on that list. So how did the Kool-Aid taste?

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Apparently George Soros, an admitted assistant to the Nazis and Anita Sarkeesian, a con artist, are just boogeymen.

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Little History fact for ya, Ikey: George Soros was a fourteen year old boy who was taken in by the local leader because he was Jewish. He had no choice but to go along.

But don't let history get in the way of your (or Rakuen's) narrative.

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Yeah but he still had a choice not to turn in his own family and even smiled while saying he felt no guilt over it years later.

Nazi sympathizer.

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He didn't turn in his own family.

Soros later described this time to writer Michael Lewis: "The Jewish Council asked the little kids to hand out the deportation notices. I was told to go to the Jewish Council. And there I was given these small slips of paper.... I took this piece of paper to my father. He instantly recognized it. This was a list of Hungarian Jewish lawyers. He said, "You deliver the slips of paper and tell the people that if they report they will be deported."

He never returned to that job

oh, here's your part of the story ,for historical accuracy:

his family purchased documents to say that they were Christians, thereby allowing them to survive the war. Later that year at age 14, Soros posed as the Christian godson of an official of the collaborationist Hungarian government's Ministry of Agriculture, who himself had a Jewish wife in hiding. On one occasion, rather than leave the 14 year old alone, the official took Soros with him while he inventoried a rich Jewish family's estate, though Soros did not take part.

this was in 1944.

Three years later, at the age of seventeen he and his family then settled in England.

His family, especially his parents were alive to meet his first wife in 1960.

So when did he sell out his family exactly?

So at what point did he sell out his family?

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It's hyperbole. He has no sense of identity or care for his own herd.

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He was 14 FFS!

are you seriously that retarded?

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No, I just have empathy. Hence why I enjoy The Human Centipede. Because I feel for the characters.

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If you had empathy, you wouldn't enjoy Human Centipede at all.

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I was gonna say "if you had taste" or "if you had common sense" or "if you could find literally anything better to waste a few hours of your life on" but okay, I guess we can go with that, too.

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I did. You know what else I enjoyed? This:

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White supremacists with Irish ancestry are hilarious for how pathetic they are even by white supremacist standards. 50 years ago y'all weren't even considered white. You were more likely to get a job if you were black or native. You were like one step below Italians. Now you're so happy to have a seat at whitey's table which is purely for his convenience, not yours, like he won't kick your pale Celtic ass back to the back of the bus the minute it's politically expedient.

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So if an Irishman doesn't want to be attacked by sand dindu rapefugees that makes him a walking contradiction?

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at least have the balls to say "sand niggers".

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I don't hate black people. I hate people who don't take personal accountability.

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Right, I just hate those folks who don't accept the blame I shift onto them for everything I hate about my life. It's so irresponsible.

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So John F. Kennedy, president of the United States over 50 years ago, and the grandson of Irish immigrants, wasn't even considered white? It sounds like you're confusing the 1960's with the 1860's!

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Being Irish (and Catholic) was basically as significant back then as Obama being black. Like the Celtic race had "arrived" - at the doorstep of whiteness. Kennedy might have been "the guy" who broke that barrier. That doesn't mean he negated its existence, then or now.

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Close, try about till 1798-1840s or so.

In 1798, Congress passed three “Alien Acts” based mainly on fears of Irish-Catholic, anti-immigrant sentiment. These new laws gave the president the power to stop immigration from any country at war with the U.S. and the right to deport any immigrant, and made it harder for immigrants to vote. Then, again in the late 1840s, a nationalist political group called the Know-Nothings sprang from a populist movement of poor whites who were dissatisfied with the two-party system and started the American Party, intent on preserving America’s culture by restricting immigration, especially from Catholic countries—including by Irish Catholics. They managed to get candidates elected into the highest political offices in America, including a president.

BTW, the 1920s and 1960s still had a strong anti-Catholic sentiment. Al Smith ran as a Democrat, the Republicans smeared him for being a Catholic (sorta like Romney got for being a Mormon). when JFK was running the fear was still that he'd be beholden to the Vatican.

All Americans do is switch from one boogeyman to another. in the 1700s and early 1800s it was the Irish, English and French as well as Africans. in the late 1800s it was the chinese, japanese, true natives, irish and spanish. early and mid 1900s it was the Germans.

1950s it changed to the Communists.

1960s it was the hippies and african americans again along with the "commies"

not much changed in the 80s except to add the lgbt community and independent women. we were best friends with islamic terrorists then too--ask Ronnie Raygun. Oh, Pagans and D&D gamers can be added to the list.

the 90s was still the lgbt community, independent women and it was about then that muslims started to see problems (as did sikhs)

TL;DR? American has a fear mongering problem and it stems from the right wing of America.

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Flagged him on youtube. Suggest you do the same.

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Dude, this has nothing to do with him being a 'cult leader' or a 'white nationalist'. Anybody who was having that conversation would be reacting the exact same way.

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And ... that's why cults work.

And, oh, fuck, reading down the thread the Ike the Dragon story becomes a bit clearer.

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And, oh, Jesus, Cracked reads my mind again.

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You want to talk about cult mentality yet you bring up the same faggot who defended ANTIFA at Charlottesville when their actions resulted in someone getting killed.


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Heather was killed by an alt-righter backing his car into her

had nothing to do with the antifa.

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Well antifa fascists were the ones who helped escalate the violence so they can share the blame, even if it hurts their precious little feelings.

Remember, Chrysalis, no matter how much you try and pin the consequences of your own actions on others, you're still guilty if someone else gets hurt and I'll always be here to remind you of that

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Ike The Dragon: *waits for an event like Charlottesville to happen, as his intellectual forebears, Fred Phelps and Jerry Falwell, did before him*

Ike The Dragon: *immediately sets to work making up the most evil, malicious lies he can imagine, both about the survivors and about the people who have just been murdered by the political movements he supports, and joining social media harassment campaigns against those people's families*

Ike The Dragon: Whoa, holy shit, why are there suddenly all these people laughing at Youtube videos of people like me getting punched in the face? Don't they understand that's initiating violence? It's just not fair that all these crisis actors are trying to pin the consequences of their own actions on others! Oh, wait, I've got it: it must all be a vast conspiracy masterminded by the Antifa! That explains everything!

me: lol

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(p. s. Since all of us who've been on the internet for any length of time know that all trolls suffer from Last Word Syndrome, I look forward to seeing you dig yourself even deeper in your reply to this. If you're having trouble thinking of a reason why you should be able to dismiss any criticism you hear from me without any form of coherent evidence or argument, about half of my family is Jewish, and I'm currently taking medication for depression, although to be fair, the extermination of mentally ill people does not seem to be as high a priority for today's alt-right as it was for the old-guard leadership of the Nazi Party. I wonder if that's because ongoing advances in science have done what all political and racial ideologies have consistently failed to do, and have produced effective methods of treating, or at least greatly reducing the symptoms of, most mental illnesses, and as a consequence of this, mental illness is no longer seen as such a great and intractable problem that the public finds simply killing everyone who is affected to be a palatable solution. Still, perhaps there's something you can work with here. Perhaps you could try telling me that my depression is obviously caused by my degenerate Jewish genes being incapable of working together at the same level of sapience as my white genes, and that disparity has created a false consciousness in my mind. Then you'll win this argument for sure!)

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Bartcharkov Persniketyollo: Oh yeah, that Ike The Dragon guy, he's so evil. It's not like the videos of Richard Spencer getting punched and ANTIFA violence existed beforehand. Up until then, they absoultely dindu nuffin wrong and if anything it's the fault of people who didn't suck on the donguses of rioters who showed up looking for a fight when Charlottesville happened. We should sue Richard Spencer because personal accountability is evil!

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It doesn't take away from the fact that people are butthurt over Molyneux giving the most mundane, typical reaction to hearing about furry sex for the first time one could

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That was not furry sex he was hearing about, it was bestiality. I would say that if Leon was seeing that as something furries were all about, then he clearly was hanging around some bad hombres, which probably helped him desire to egress as fast as possible.

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He did reference people wanting to have sex with giant bunnies so I mean it's not like one helped the other.

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Well, yeah, the difference between bestiality and furry sex seems obvious to people like you and me, who are here because we have a legitimate interest in anthropomorphic animal characters, which may be sexual to greater or lesser degrees or not at all. To someone who never had that interest until they were recruited by a demagogue like Stefan Molyneux and told they have to pretend to be one of us in order to bring furry fandom (or any other geek subculture) under their control, such nuances of what it means to be furry might not be so obvious.

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Dude, have you ever been on a furry site? People treat calling out pedophiles and literal snake charmers as prejudice against a simple fetish.

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Only if their name is Milo, Dennis Hastert, Father McGrabbyFeely or apparently Donald Trump.

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Who exactly are you referring to, that thinks calling out pedophiles is prejudice against a simple fetish? Foxler? Dionysius? Or perhaps someone who gained fame outside of furry fandom, someone like Milo Yiannopoulos?

Honestly, your posts read more like a parody of alt-right orcs than anything. Between this and your attempt at insinuating that I must be some kind of Russian plant or something ("Bartcharkov Persniketyollo"? Really, that's the best you can do? I guess calling me "Boris Bartenov" would have just been too highbrow and too esoteric of an intellectual reference for you to understand?,) I really, sincerely believe you must be consciously going out of your way to make the weakest arguments possible, that are the easiest to turn against your own side.

(This is the part where you reply to me and say "Oh YEAH?!?!?! Well YOUR posts read like a parody of BLM funded by GEORGE SOROS!!!!!!")

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You have a stupid name. I made it better.

And as for Milo, he did not actually say he's into pedophilia, but as a victim of it he saw his encounter as being consensual. That's a lot more forgivable than actually trying to engage in pedophile relationships as these people do.

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No, it's not really forgivable at all.

it's as disgusting as the act. he's naturally a bad man, this made him worse.

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You need to take a chill pill. You're not looking at it from his point of view.

No, he's not naturally a bad man, an asshole maybe. But that's it. He's not a Nazi.

Anyways, have you seen A Serbian Film? It's mighty enjoyable.

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To look at it from his point of view, i'd have to put on a tinfoil hat and shove my own head up my own ass.

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True, it was the bestiality subset I used to highlight the fandom with, which is not entirely accurate and sensationalist in nature (Sounds like any typical MSM group), the truth is not far off. Pull up FA right now and make sure your NSFW filter is off. This fandom is drenched in sex-obsession, and a lack of self-knowledge in relation to the topic in general.

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Man, you and Rakuen really like upvoting your stuff.

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I like how you basically agree with the guy who would think less of you for the fantasies you spend half your time on here divulging. Yeah I totally know the fact I fantasize about being fucked by MLP and Disney characters makes me a fucking freak but fuck it, I'm still better than you guys because I realize it, not that any of y'all are just as self-aware or anything.

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Have a feeling the "furry" he was interviewing wasn't even a real furry. It's all fake, don't pay it any mind.

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I had that thought and made that a question on my twitter account, Patch from DogPatch seemed to indicate that they are/were an actual furry. Not sure how he would have found that out, but I'm guessing it's not something he had any motivation to lie about, and it did take him awhile to respond so I'm guessing he looked into it.

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I wish we had a last name or something.

Cause "leon stefan molyneux furry" brngs up absolutely nothing because people just keep calling him Leon.

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I got confided the ID of the furry, they are a real person. I didn't watch the vid but it has "manipulative sales pitch" written on it.

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I have no doubts. i was just doing my own research.

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You were that random Note I got on FA (or maybe Telegram), I think

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Really? Using actors to promote a false narrative is not a new concept. And based on who's coming is a reasonable theory.

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I meant the video itself was fake news. I'm not very funny.

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Naw, it's just the nature of communicating by text.

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I'm a real, actual (LDS) furry with a strange history that spoke with Stef.

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Molyneux is the man

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Curious if you knew them before this article or not.

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I've been watching Free Domain Radio since forever only Philistines don't know who he is.

Your rating: None Average: 4.1 (7 votes)

Really? You would think then he'd have a higher sub count than Pew-de-Pie at that point then.

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He's pretty controversial. Unlike Pewdiepie, he isn't something I can see everyone enjoying.

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Don't discount youtube dicking with the numbers like people did with the election (and more recently, Gamestop Stocks)

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this...explains a lot.

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Face it Chrysalis, we all know I'm right.

Princess Luna would so bang Richard Spencer. It's not even up for debate.

Your rating: None Average: 3.7 (7 votes)

Actually, it is up for debate.

Since Princess Luna is one of the good ponies, she'd be the first one to banish him to the sun.

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No, she'd think he's hot. You know you think he's hot. Hence why you hate him so much.

Rainbow Dash would protect Richard Spencer from antifa

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Richard Spencer's hair alone is punchable.

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Cross confirmed crushing on Richard Spencer

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It's super alpha to crush on men who run away crying from a little knock on the head.

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I never said I had a crush on him, and the fact that you need to insult him every time I bring it up just adds to my evidence that you secretly want to have sex with him.

Too bad you're not hot enough for a guy like him, well that, and the fact that he's not gay.

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Yeah, you're probably right, I'm really not his type.

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Usually when manly men brag about you know, actual things they could actually bang instead of, you know, fictional characters.

Then again, fictional characters can't get creeped out at a self proclaimed alpha howling...

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Dude, those creepy guys who can't score with women are usually betas. Hence why they're timid and conflict averse.

Did you know most movie villains are betas? Just saying. We're primally wired to be afraid of them.

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Aha, so that's why you're so consistently combative here, even if it means resorting to sounding like a lunatic: you're afraid of being "conflict averse" and therefore a "beta", which is bad, for some reason.

Let's dig deeper. C'mon, lean back on the nice comfy couch and tell me about your mother.

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Fear of conflict in a man is abominable. And no, if I was conflict averse, I wouldn't be posting here in the first place.

You're the beta, Storm King.

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I see. So you're posting here to prove how totally brave you are, because you're so suave and cool that you argue online about cartoons, and you want us to think you're manly because of it. Am I right so far?

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I don't care what you think. I'm just here to show my dominance.

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Bro, you can't even dominate the auto-fold feature off your comments.

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Now you're complaining about dislikes? How feminine can you get? If anything, the folding of my comments just goes to show that you need to censor me like you do Spencer and Yiannopolous when they hurt a tranny's feelings.

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I'm just saying, shouldn't a dominant, manly man be least somewhat respected by a bunch of beta cucks like us, or something?

Either that or breaking out the whips and chains. Anything's better than all this boring up the place.

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You routinely try and hide your jealousy. You're not at the point of actually acknowledging your admiration yet, but you'll be there soon.

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I don't care what you think.

There are perhaps better ways to show you don't care about our opinions than constantly arguing with us and saying "IKE THE DRAGON, OUT!" twice and then sheepishly returning less than a week later and acting like nothing happened.

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I'm just drawn back time and time again because I feel I need to teach you a lesson in being good people.

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Aw, he thinks about us when he's gone. :3

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Yeah, I can't help but remember how you must still feel bad about how much I beat you.

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Oh, stop lying to us, Ike.

You're sad and lonely and since we don't ban people, Flayrah is literally the only long-term interaction with a human being you've had in years.

You keep coming back because we are the closest thing you have to friends.

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I like him.

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No man, you just might be reading too deep into it. I mean, you might be right, but look at me, I'm basically the reverse Ike, and I do it because as sad as it is, I genuinely derive enjoyment from this shit. When you're that easily amused you pretty much don't need friends.

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I have tons of friends lol everyone I know likes me or is envious of me

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your mom doesn't count as a friend.

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You've convinced me, Ike. Totally. 100% believe you.

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I've yet to see you teach anything.

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Alphas and betas don't exist.

this is now at least the 10th time we've been over this.

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Fear of conflict in a man is abominable.

DOCTOR: You really want to think about this, because if I activate the signal, every living creature dies.
EMPEROR [on viewscreen]: I am immortal.
DOCTOR: Do you want to put that to the test?
EMPEROR [on viewscreen]: I want to see you become like me. Hail the Doctor, the Great Exterminator.
DOCTOR: I'll do it!
EMPEROR [on viewscreen]: Then prove yourself, Doctor. What are you, coward or killer?
(But he cannot throw the final switch.)
DOCTOR: Coward. Any day.

since you love nonexistent alphas so much. a real man, an alpha, knows it's better to walk away from a fight.

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"Lunatic" says the antifa sympathizer

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She weighs like 500 lbs and her only claim to fame other than banging her son without killing him is getting body-slammed by Lex Luger aboard the USS Intrepid to kickstart what was an ill-fated attempt to recreate the magic of Hulkamania.

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Who are you talking about?

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Your mom, shit for brains lol.

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I thought you were talking about your last gf tbh, that was my first guess. But then again it only makes sense that the dindu nuffin hood rat would be a virgin

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I'm surprised you don't know who Lex Luger and Yokozuna are. But that's because I'm the real alpha here. Real men don't give a shit about MLP, they're into pro-wrestling. And if you were into wrestling, you'd know how stupid a statement like "most villains are betas" is. Luger, Undertaker, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, just to name some of the more mainstream famous examples, they all were villains originally. You seriously going to call them betas?

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The Rock is not a villain. I am The Rock!

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The Rock was a villain before he was mainstream famous. He was also the leader of black power group, something you would never be.

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Shut up black people love me.

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And even if he was a villain, him being an alpha is to be expected from Pro Wrestling. In general, 80% of villains outside of it are betas.

Darth Vader is a beta. Obi Wan Kenobi is an alpha.

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Also, a bit random, but if you haven't seen it yet, there's this movie called A Serbian Film. I personally enjoyed it, and if you liked The Human Centipede, you might enjoy it too.

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How many times have you brought up Human Centipede here just completely out of the blue? Are you legit turned on by that movie or something?

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If I was that it would be pretty badass.

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I will admit the random bringing up of both MLP:FiM and The Human Centipede in arguments that have nothing to do about either is easily Ike's most interesting quirk.

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on oldFAF there was this guy who's gimmick was literally every reply to any topic would come down to a reference to Star Trek, usually citing a specific episode. That quirk took more dedication and I actually *learned things* because of it.

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Given that Rainbow Dash is the element of loyalty and took down the likes of Chrysalis and King Sombra, I doubt that.

and nope, sorry. I'm into men, not Nazis.

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...Yeah, she'd be loyal to Richard Spencer and protect him from antifa, who think and act like Chrysalis and Sombra.

Also, nice try: but Rainbow Dash didn't defeat Sombra. Spike did.

Go troll somewhere else, hater.

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Go troll somewhere else, hate

oh the irony in this statement.

So how much is Perri or Foxler paying you anyway?

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Nothing. I'm here on my own volition, Chrysalis.

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Isn't it adorable how he keeps "Actually..."ing us on My Little Pony?

I mean, he doesn't realize that it's because of the efforts of all those "FEMINISTS" that he's allowed to both like ponies and still consider himself a "manly man".

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You must be talking about different feminists. I'm talking about the ones who think I shouldn't watch it because I'm appropriating something for them and would take issue with me being attracted to hot ponies

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Lauren Faust is a feminist.

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Lauren Faust isn't a feminist. Nightmare Moon is.

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First, Lauren Faust created Nightmare Moon.

From her own keyboard, dated Christmas Eve 2014:

I have been a lifelong feminist,

I have striven to do right by women and girls in the animated projects I have been part of.

I try to bring sincerity and depth to the female characters I’ve animated and have fought in development and story meetings to make female characters more than just the typical girlfriend, Mom or sex symbol. I’ve even fought to see that there was more than just one girl character in whatever project I was working on

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Yeah, she created her to represent people like Anita Sarkeesian and you.

That article was pretty gay tbh.

And if she's a feminist because she likes female characters, that's fine. At least she's not a Nightmare Moon feminist.

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1. no one is a nightmare moon feminist.
2. you're an idiot. an article can't be gay
3. I notice how you deflect. she isn't a feminist because she likes female characters, she's a feminist because she believes in feminine empowerment. a beta like you wouldn't understand.

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You're a Nightmare Moon feminist. She wanted to get rid of the Celestia (i.e. The Church and God) because she was tired of being in it's shadow. She is a feminist.

"Feminine empowerment" as I said, she likes female characters. At least she isn't defending Islam or trying to actively destroy the video game industry.

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Was Jesus an alpha?

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He was until he got naile----

*Dies by lightning bolt*

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Jesus is beta as fuck; I mean, "turn the other cheek" was his big thing.

Your rating: None Average: 4.8 (6 votes)

Beta? Ike is at least half right. Jesus was the alpha and the omega. Beta just never was a part of it.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

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Dammit I was wanting to make that joke

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Yes, I walked into that one, didn't I?

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This one won.

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Yes, Jesus was an alpha. So is Atticus Finch and Beast.

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Moses was also an alpha. And seeing as Jesus and Moses are still alive in Heaven, they're still both alphas.

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Okay, so my secret socialist website I post to when Flayrah gets annoying is in the middle of an incredibly embarrassing meltdown, so you are really messing with my shit right now.

Can you like take a break this week? Call in sick, you know, have some Ike time, or something?

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At the most basic level, the video felt incredibly skeezy and sleazy to me because it involved somebody who *isn't* a trained therapist (but who *does* smell rather manipulative) conducting a faux therapy session with a vulnerable, trusting person in open view of the *entire Internet.* Gross, gross, gross; unethical, unethical, unethical.

Credit where credit is due, though: I did appreciate how Stefan acknowledged how the caller's "otter family" had helped him to genuinely cope with life disappointments in a healthier way than some of his "degenerate" (by the way kids, that word makes you sound like a Neo-Nazi or an 70-year-old tent evangelist) acquaintances. I was pleasantly surprised by that piece.

In any case, I deeply resent the Freudian-scented insinuation that furries are furries because Daddy was absent or Mommy didn't hug them enough. It's both reductionistic and insulting, and in this case, I'd say it potentially reveals more about Molyneux's psychology than it does anyone else's.

Naturally, I also resent when "normies" (especially ones with obvious baggage) pat themselves on the back for "at least not being X (in this case, furries)." Many of the "normal" or "standard" coping mechanisms people regularly employ to deal with disappointment, poor self-esteem and trauma are easily much more harmful than the simple act of creating an animal avatar for yourself and running around in costume. If his weirdo-bizarro rants about popular movies, race relations, and the women in his life are any indication, Stefan Molyneux needs to take the plank out of his own eye before poking at the splinter in other people's.

I'm certainly biased, but this absolutely felt to me like a street preacher or snake oil salesman trying convince a vulnerable and questioning person that theirs is the only product worth buying.

Anyway, it sounds like Leon needs to ask himself why he's consistently gravitated to people he sees as "degenerates," and why he can't seem to escape their orbit. The fandom is diverse, so if you find you don't like a particular clique or a certain person, there are typically plenty of other kinds of people you can go find to hang out with, provided you're willing and able to make the effort and establish the connection. (The problem could also be that Leon is perceiving the glass as half-empty for some reason, and that he has a tendency to notice the weeds nestled amongst the flowers, so to speak.)

Oh, and good DeFoo pun, Sonious. Well done :).

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As an amateur ethics philosopher, I had the displeasure of reading Stefan Molyneux' work some years ago when he published his ethical theory entitled Universally Preferable Behaviour (UPB). It was a complete failure, and he's not particularly proud of it, for good reason. Everyone, both internet users, and academy philosophers who wasted their time reading that garbage, thought it wasn't worth the time & effort put into it. You can look for many rebuttals, but basically, Mr. Molyneux has deep conceptual misunderstanding that lead him to having no idea what the fuck he's talking about, in just about any area of knowledge.

I would not waste any more time listening nor reading this man, who is no more intelligent than a moron occasionally shouting out intelligent-sounding words by mere chance. He should better stay quiet and seem stupid, than open his mouth and remove any doubt of his stupidity. He won't stay silent because this has been his way of making money for years now.

This is my firm & informed opinion on him.

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Just offhand, it sounds like he tried to reinvent the Kantian wheel. Yes?

Much like Paul Joseph Watson and various other, similar hucksters and Dunning-Krugerites, he manages to fool people by sounding authoritative and self-assured. (I imagine it also helps to have a "cool" accent.)

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....I think this is bait.... no principled person would make a statement like this.

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You know what, let's just say ... things came to light later with this poster, so ... I don't think this counts as calling it, but you almost kind of did, so definite credit there.

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Apparently, I'm 3 years late to this place (you're not really found on the standard google search, for good reasons). I guess I'll go through your rant and correct some errors and answer questions:

First of all, in regards to the beginning of the conversation with Stef, I was hot off of some /pol/ and /fur/ on 8chan, still in the mindset of that culture to gross-out with extreme examples. If I'd mentally prepared much better and not been doing that, I think I would have been in a better state to properly speak with Stef. Secondly, I believe that the lack of general socialization did not help my case in general. Yes, those sorts of things DO happen (like 20% as some were saying), but not so much as initially perceived. I agree that the nature of the title and thumbnail of the video was certainly in-line with the click-bait present on Youtube (from a money-making standpoint, it fits though)
"The Otters are your family"
You may be correct that a large portion of those in the fandom have it just as a hobby or otherwise trivial aspect of their life. In the subsequent Talk-Therapy and pursuit of Self-Knowledge, the further assertion of it having a deeper role did prove to be accurate to some degree, particularly with a Father figure and with male peership. Not exactly on-the-nose, but close enough in the territory to be accurate when I explored that aspect further.
"Abandon your Otter Family"
At this point (3+ years later), I've almost exclusively left the furry fandom. I won't say that there still aren't opportunities to socialize, learn, grow and otherwise enjoy other people within this realm, but as a whole, I don't see it as a good fit for me and, with the countless informal conversations I've had with others in this fandom, doesn't seem good for them either. I am reminded of 1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things." I won't say that the fandom as a whole is completely childish, but those who are in it should do a little bit of self-reflection on if they are growing as a person while doing it (I wanted to put an example here like diaperfurs, but that seems petty).
" what role does the education system play in our rearing?"
Pretty good question, It absolutely had an influence in my life, which was primarily negative (with the exception of 3 LDS teachers that I had in gradeschool and High School). My experience with it as an institution was un-caring or even hostile while the so-called "peers" within this group were disconnected and rude as well. It's not hard to see this glass as half-empty while it was so differently bad to my other social spheres.
In the end, There is some good I've found out of the experience: The positive aspects that I see in my Fursona are certainly acheivable in my own life. I am reminded of the Quote by Alan Watts on Dreams:

“Let's suppose that you were able every night to dream any dream that you wanted to dream. And that you could, for example, have the power within one night to dream 75 years of time. Or any length of time you wanted to have. And you would, naturally as you began on this adventure of dreams, you would fulfill all your wishes. You would have every kind of pleasure you could conceive. And after several nights of 75 years of total pleasure each, you would say "Well, that was pretty great." But now let's have a surprise. Let's have a dream which isn't under control. Where something is gonna happen to me that I don't know what it's going to be. And you would dig that and come out of that and say "Wow, that was a close shave, wasn't it?" And then you would get more and more adventurous, and you would make further and further out gambles as to what you would dream. And finally, you would dream ... where you are now. You would dream the dream of living the life that you are actually living today.”

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We tend not to close comments, so you're right on time! Not sure why it didn't show up for you before - we're in Google News - but perhaps their algorithm took exception to some of the topics mentioned in this particular story.

Many do leave the fandom. Average time of presence was around ~4.5 years a decade ago. Those were the people motivated enough to fill out a survey - some just dip their toes in; for others it's a phase; or fun enough until they get, you know, a job and a family… at which point it's harder to put time in, unless your job is the fandom.

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8chan > religion noises

I support the decision to take this elsewhere.

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Hope you're doing well.

As far as leaving the fandom if one only sees bad influence in it, that's absolutely fine. There are some sub-groups that are really rotten within furry (but this is true outside furry as well). If one finds themselves within those groups, then no furry fandom at all can be better than staying.

However, I would definitely have an adamant disagreement with your interpretation of Corinthians 13:11.

I think in my mind, the childish thing is to sit around and expecting others to take care of you or to teach you instead of being an adult and being responsible for yourself, your friends, and your family. It has nothing to do with cartoons, or anthro-characters. There are many adults who act as children by giving up any sense of autonomy and expecting someone else to do things for them. To me, that is what that passage is discussing.

The popular interpretation that 1 Cor 13:11 is discussing cartoons, furry art or stories, or fandom conventions and community because those things are what are deemed as childish (in Western Society) is to completely ignore the words around that very passage and remove the context on what the Bible deems as childish instead.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

So the childish things they are saying to throw away are the following as indicated by 1 Cor 13:4: Envy, Boasting, Dishonor, Delighting in Evil, lying, selfishness, being quick to anger, and keeping score of the wrongs in others (probably for purpose of vengeance).

But you want to know what the creepiest part about the passage of Cor 13 above? It is almost a prophecy of this very day, and this very comment, where I am explaining this passage to you. Look at the 2 lines before 13:11. They seem to know that the passage of 13:11 would be taken out of context by society in the future.

9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.

In other words. Anyone who uses the passage of 13:11 to point at an activity as childish that has nothing to do with what is listed above are using the passage in part, but when someone comes along to give it the full context, then the real message of what is being said is put before you. What you believed when you only quoted the one part disappears. You put away the childish thing, that believing the the childish thing is cartoon animals and not the sins listed prior.

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So now my favorite Bible passage that I will use when people ask me what my favorite passage of the Bible is, is now 1 Cor 13:9. Simply to be edgy in that it criticizes those that passage pick.

Thanks for that :)

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Comments brought me back here, and it looks like the guy was terminated from YouTube.

So Stephan's having a good one.

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About the author

Sonious (Tantroo McNally)read storiescontact (login required)

a project coordinator and Kangaroo from CheektRoowaga, NY, interested in video games, current events, politics, writing and finance