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Rocky Mountain Fur Con canceled following neo-Nazi associations, tax irregularities

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Colorado furry convention Rocky Mountain Fur Con has been canceled. Funds collected in advance of this August's event are to be spent on existing liabilities, and refunding attendees and dealers where possible; any remainder will go to the convention charity.

While their official statement cites rising security costs, the closure follows the controversial issues surrounding CEO Kendal Emery (Kahuki Liaru), and the "Furry Raiders" group. It has also been discovered by Flayrah that the convention's parent company's Federal tax-exempt status, obtained in 2009, had lapsed, and it had not filed taxes for a period of seven years, while still claiming to be a registered 501(c) non-profit. In this investigative report we can identify the issues that have contributed to the end of Denver's furry convention.

RMFC Twitter profile A due-diligence search on the non-profit company, Mid America Anthropomorphic And Art Corporation - parent organisation to the Rocky Mountain Fur Con - shows that it has not filed tax returns between 2008 and 2015. MAAAC promoted itself as a "non profit 503(c) corporation" on the convention's Twitter account. However, according to IRS records, the company's status as an exempt non-profit was revoked in 2011 for failure to file annual information returns. The IRS confirms that they have not qualified as a exempt non-profit under any part of the United States Federal tax code since 2011.

A non-tax related filing was made by the company with the IRS in 2011, to transfer the responsible board officer from Kendal Emery to Zachary Brooks (Sorin) who is the current chairman of the convention. Kendal stood down as chair of Rocky Mountain Fur Con after his 1993 conviction for "Criminal Sexual Contact with a Minor" was revealed.

Despite his resignation as convention chair, Kendal Emery continued as CEO of MAAAC. Last month he sent a Cease and Desist letter to furry fan Deo, following a dispute over the "Furry Raiders".

Using the title of "Chief of Executive Contract Law Officer", Kendal signed the letter with a blood-red thumb print as a seal. This seal, alongside other language used in the letter, is commonly linked with the "Sovereign Citizen" movement, associated with rejection of Federal and State government's legitimacy to enforce laws and taxes. The "Furry Raiders" have also been associated in press profiles with other alt-right and neo-Nazi movements. [More information regarding the conflict between Deo and RMFC at Dogpatch Press.]

When asked by Flayrah for comment, Zachary gave the following statement:

Up until the 2011 year, Rocky Mountain Fur Con filed and had accepted by the IRS form 990-N Electronic E-post card for Tax-Exempt Organizations not Required To File Form 990 or 990-EZ. When the company lost its 503C Status the organization continued to operate as a Colorado Stat Non-profit and contributed money to a registered charity Freedom Service Dogs, To Offset most of our tax Liability.

Despite no longer operating as a Non-Profit organization the staff and Board of directors continued to receive no wages or compensation and all monies earned were put directly into the operation and growth of Rocky Mountain Fur Con, the organization's primary endeavor. In 2015 our accountants realized there had been a lapse in our tax filings that were rectified May 18th, 2015 and filed with the IRS including reporting of back income. The convention has been delayed in filing it's 2016 return but will be doing so shortly.

Prior to this story's publication, Rocky Mountain Fur Con posted the following statement from their Chairman to announce RMFC's cancelation:

Recently, members of our community have taken it upon themselves to bring in external influences of hate, intolerance, and stubborn refusal to compromise. This movement has grown into a community that promotes violence, and it is because of that, it is with deep regret that I make the following announcement:

Last month, we were faced with a sudden and drastic increase in security costs amounting to more than a third of our entire existing operating budget. This cost increase stemmed directly from the very public threats of violence against one another by members of this community, as well as the negative backlash from misinformation spread about the convention, its staff and attendees. Therefore, Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 is officially canceled. I will no longer continue to subject my staff and our community to the lies, hate, violence and slander that was disseminated by a small, vocal minority.

All resources relating to the Convention will be used to close our costs and tax liability, and the remainder will be utilized to provide refunds as funds allow to attendees and vendors. Any remainder will go to our standing Charity, Freedom Service Dogs.

My staff, the Board, and I would like to thank the community for ten great years. We had hoped to see this convention continue to grow and flourish but that is no longer an option.

In the hours prior to this announcement, a "Mile High Fur Con" (Twitter; Telegram, temporarily closed) began to be mooted as a replacement.

Update (12 Apr): MAAAC board member Rodney Brian Graff (Scorch) claims that the Denver Marriott Tech Center demanded $22,000 to pay off-duty Denver Police to provide security, after the police investigated comments on Deo's Twitter feed and found them "credible" threats. Meanwhile, rumours are spreading of disputes between Kahuki, Scorch, and Sorin, cumulating in an ultimatum after the cease-and-desist letter.

Comments

Your rating: None Average: 4.4 (10 votes)

An anti-tax movement having irregular taxes? You don't say.

Thanks for doing your research and prepping this article, it's made my evening more interesting to say the least.

Your rating: None Average: 4 (4 votes)

A link to the tax history can be found here:

https://www.sos.state.co.us/biz/BusinessEntityHistory.do?quitButtonDestination=B...

You may have to COPY and PASTE it into your address bar as the click link expires.

Your rating: None Average: 3.7 (3 votes)

You'll need to do the search manually, since all search results of the database expire.

Those who wish to verify themselves, the IRS EIN reference for Mid America Anthropomorphic And Art Corporation is 20-2837689 and can be used to search for the automatic revocation for failure to file. https://apps.irs.gov/app/eos/mainSearch.do?mainSearchChoice=revoked&dispatchMeth...

Your rating: None Average: 3.7 (3 votes)

To clarify: the Colorado filings aren't "tax" as such, so much as business registration; if they hadn't kept this up, the whole company would have ceased to legally exist, not just fallen out of federal non-profit status.

The point of the federal Form 990 is to provide public insight into the organization's finances, or (for the 990-N) to assert that the organization's revenues are under a certain figure, such that it's reasonable to assume it's doing the right thing without detailed reports; and at least keep contact addresses up to date.

In some respects, the bigger issue around such non-profit revocations is not that RMFC itself might be dodging taxes, but that its notification of 501(c)(3) status may have misled others into making incorrect tax deductions for contributions to them. I don't have any evidence that this has happened, though; it would be more common for pure charities which do not provide services to contributors.

Your rating: None Average: 4.2 (5 votes)

Unreal. So sad to see a convention go, but these people really brought it upon themselves.

Your rating: None Average: 2.6 (5 votes)

Excellent summary. There's more to the story on deck too.

I won't take time to address that closing statement except the "small vocal minority" made the highest traffic ever at Dogpatch Press, especially via Twitter and stuff like the #ImWithDeo hashtag. But trolls seem to be at a loss for words.

Your rating: None Average: 3.7 (3 votes)

I should also perhaps mention that we approached RMFC about this article before they issued their statements.

Your rating: None Average: 3.7 (3 votes)

I'm keeping in mind the damage of that official statement to Deo and the response about the Raiders before all this came out.

Your rating: None Average: 3.7 (3 votes)

as well as the negative backlash from misinformation spread about the convention, its staff and attendees.

What "misinformation" are they referring to here? The Kahuki thing? Hasn't that been known for almost as long as the convention had been running?

Your rating: None Average: 3.5 (8 votes)

The red thumbprint is just a coincidence man!

I mean we're furries, it couldn't have been a red paw print or something? I mean at least then they could fall back on the "it's not the same exact thing, don't take us so seriously" excuse.

Your rating: None Average: 2.8 (4 votes)

the red fingerprint is a sign of being a SovCit--a Sovereign Citizen

Your rating: None Average: 2.2 (17 votes)

I am puzzled I can see the tax issue being a big hit for the con and Kendal Emery, but the Furry raiders. I checked them out and as far as i am concern the evidence as neo nazis is inclusive. and Perhaps RMFC dose have an issue its a minority that want to incite violence punch some (supposed) Nazis #imwithdeo. https://twitter.com/hashtag/imwithdeo?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ct...

It sad to see our fandom has come to this.

Your rating: None Average: 3.6 (16 votes)

I researched the Furry Raiders a year ago when their first shenanigans with the RMFC convention took hold.

The group's leader's name is Foxler (but he later emphasized that it was mixture of Fox and Miller, his surname, not Fox & Hitler as people accused)

They wear a red armband with a white circle with a black paw symbol of similar style to Nazi arm bands (but others say you can't take it to seriously/can't be seen as equivilent).

But the third thing that made me go, "uh, no" was that at the time I was researching, the age that Foxler's FA account had on it was 128. At that time, subtracting that value tied back to Hitler's age if they were alive.

All these squares make a circle and there are only two possibilities at that point.

The person is a neo-Nazi, or they are using Nazi symbology to draw attention to themselves.

Unfortunately, both cases are pretty pathetic.

Your rating: None Average: 2.1 (15 votes)

Taking this logic this this person must be a neo Nazi.

http://www.furry.asinglelion.com/?attachment_id=1742
Nazi have a red armband She has a red armband therefore she must nazi.

Your rating: None Average: 3.5 (10 votes)

Excellent job ignoring Sonious' point. More directly, she would be, if the first thing she did was strike this pose.

...really, read that whole thread, it's about Foxler from his suitmaker. I'm sure you'll find it 'inclusive' of the Raiders' 'leader' taking the 'joke' waaaaaay too far. Either that or they're what they appear to be.

Your rating: None Average: 2.2 (17 votes)

I got you with a sweeping generalization. Nope she would not be Neo-Nazi even if the girl had given a Nazi salute because she is just cosplying Schrödinger a Nazi villain from Manga/ Anime Hellsing. she did replaced the swastika with a cat. But cosplaying Nazi dose not make her a Neo-Nazi. In the same way the use of the armband by the Furry Raiders does not make them a Nazi. I need more proof like involvement with white supremacist organization or using and distributing Neo-Nazi media.

Your rating: None Average: 3 (8 votes)

A red thumb print may do the trick...?

Your rating: None Average: 1.9 (20 votes)

A red thumb print proves nothing, actually. It is an oddity, and it may suggest a political affiliation. But that is not to say the letter didn't come from the legal department of the convention, or that they weren't serious about taking legal action.

Of course, you also need to consider the source of the scan. Deo, in my opinion, represents a very small group of what we once would have called trolls, who are doing a magnificent job of disrupting the fandom, subverting its morals, and attempting to replace them with, dare I say, Nazi-like values in regard to free speech.

It's almost laughable that I'm expected to take seriously people who act like Nazis accusing other people of being Nazis. It would be generally hilarious, if it wasn't actually hurting people.

So, given that we are looking at a scan made by someone with the scruples of a troll, how can we be so sure Deo didn't add the thumb print to further discredit the people being attacked? You won't find me giving any weight to it.

Your rating: None Average: 3.2 (10 votes)

Because doing such a thing could get you into very big legal trouble, and I'm sure if that were the case the convention would have countered, with a real lawyer, and actually went after them.

Instead they shut their doors.

Of course they'll probably come up with that talking point now that someone has posed the question in an open forum, but of course we'll know where it has come from.

Or we can go old school phoresnics here if you would like we can ask for Deo's thumbprint and see if the prints match.

Your rating: None Average: 1.8 (16 votes)

It's not worth the effort. When has anyone ever actually sued over Furry drama? You know it's all posturing on both sides. And at this point the con wouldn't have anything to protect with a lawsuit, if it had the money to invest in one, which obviously it doesn't.

Also, I don't think there's anything especially illegal about adding a thumb print to a scan of a cease and desist letter. Not that I know it was added, but one has to admit, it would be the easiest thing in the world to do if one was inclined to deceive a fandom eager to jump to the worst conclusions.

Your rating: None Average: 2.5 (4 votes)

No, it really wouldn't.

because you'd have people in the fandom that would analyze it and question it and if it came out that Deo was a fraud that'd be the end of it.

in fact, if it's true as you claim i'm surprised it hasn't already.

Your rating: None Average: 1.8 (5 votes)

you know, those who bark the loudest are usually the ones that support what they're barking against.

Looking at the art on your FA, it makes me curious as to what agenda and what 'special interests' you're hiding.

Your rating: None Average: 2.1 (15 votes)

My agenda? Justice. Justice for the gryphon. Justice for those who lost their con. Justice for the fox and his friends. But most of all, safe sanctuary for the poor abused child who came to my fandom seeking a place of shelter and security, but was instead driven to tears by those who made him to fear the very expression of himself. My agenda is to see these crimes properly addressed, the instigators of these crimes removed, and the fandom restored to a state I do not have to feel ashamed to call my home. Yeah. I think that about covers it.

Your rating: None Average: 2.8 (11 votes)

But most of all, safe sanctuary for the poor abused child who came to my fandom seeking a place of shelter and security, but was instead driven to tears by those who made him to fear the very expression of himself.

you do understand that I see right through the appeals to emotion fallacy that this is right?

what justice for the gryphon? his show sucked, he said some nasty things and the convention which is a private organization decided that his show wasn't worth it anymore. the end. good for them.

what fox?

come on now. don't be an Anita Bryant. No one buys it anymore except the super gullible.

Your rating: None Average: 3.1 (7 votes)

Actually, she is cosplaying as a nazi character.

If I'm thinking of the right character, that's Schrodinger, a member of the Letztes Bataillon known as Millennium in Hellsing. Which is a Nazi group.

is the person themselves? no. but foxler is a nazi, has neonazi ideals. and quite frankly, you are your leader. if you don't like what your leader is doing then remove them or remove yourself.

Your rating: None Average: 3.5 (4 votes)

> Nazi have a red armband She has a red armband therefore she must nazi.

In a lot of ways it's all red herrings. They use that sort of iconography to get somebody to complain and then draw them in to be trolled. It's attention seeking assholeary.

They MIGHT be a nazi but they might just be a troll looking to tear down people for attention. In both cases it stabs at the heart of the fandom.

Neither is good.

Your rating: None Average: 1.8 (20 votes)

Wait a minute. The number 128 can have only one significance? This couldn't possibly be a coincidence or a joke? It couldn't be the age of an RP character, or his own age in animal years?

Also, the Furry Raiders armband comes in multiple colors, including purple and rainbow. The group includes a number of gay people, black people and people who dress up in animal costumes. By definition, the leader of such a group can not possibly be a Neo-Nazi.

Is he after attention? Probably. But all evidence of his personality suggests he's an idealist attempting to communicate a lesson in tolerance, not vice versa.

If someone can lay down some actual evidence of Nazi-like behavior on his part, I may have to withdraw my support. But at present all I see is a fellow fur making a pretty effective demonstration of how this fandom couldn't love and tolerate its way out of a paper bag.

I'll admit, I don't like his armband. I get negative vibes off of it just like everyone else. But then, I get negative vibes off of violent video games. That doesn't mean I should go around giving everyone who plays them a hard time.

Your rating: None Average: 4 (17 votes)

Alright, so, first of all, there was a homosexual contingent in the early Nazi party. Google Ernst Rohm. He cofounded the SA, but was eventually executed at Hitler's behest. Suggesting that people cannot be neo-Nazis because of their sexuality or race, or because of the sexuality or race of members of a group they lead, contradicts historical and present reality.

Second, the dude is a known racist and Nazi. Here's some evidence.

Third, a major failing of the furry fandom is its desire to embrace an idealist notion of universal tolerance. You cannot show tolerance to every person and group because some people and groups are intrinsically in conflict; as an example, to tolerate Nazis in your community is to ditch your support for Jewish people, people of color, LGBTQ folk, and so on. And if you wish to show support for those groups you must denounce and expel Nazis from your community.

It's an easy trap to fall into. Furries are misunderstood and mocked by certain groups, and so the natural first response is to want to create a community where everyone is loved and tolerated. But to allow Nazis to spread racist rhetoric under a pretense of "tolerance" is explicitly showing intolerance of others; the correct way to promote a loving, supportive furry community is to give the boot to those who promote racism.

And if that means old fools like 2 no longer "put themselves out for us anymore", not that they really ever did in the first place, then it is up to us to support a "new guard" who understands how to build a genuinely supportive and healthy fandom.

Your rating: None Average: 1.9 (18 votes)

Um, Hitler used a lot of people in the early days during his rise to power, only to have them slaughtered in their beds. Being gay in a movement where history shows you'll be slaughtered the moment your usefulness ends doesn't seem very bright, does it?

To be a Neo-Nazi you must be white, straight, and have a heart filled with hate for everyone who is not. This is not a negotiable aspect of the movement.

As for your linked evidence. One doesn't have to be a Nazi to tag a FA image as having a Nazi reference in it. And the other thing Foxler has explained as something dumb he did back when he was trying to research what a Neo-Nazi was, because he didn't know what people were talking about when they accused him of being one. How does someone not know what a Neo-Nazi is? I don't know. What's your excuse?

Also, even if he did once fancy himself a Nazi before he knew what one was, that by itself isn't evidence of racism. To prove racism, you must be able to show him hating on somebody for racial reasons. Without this he can't be defined as racist or a Nazi. And so far I've seen not even a hint of such evidence.

Ah, "one of the great failings of Furry Fandom is its belief in tolerance." Where have I heard that before? And why am I not surprised to hear it on Flayrah, where I run into Neo-Burned Furs every time I visit?

Actually, no. We don't have to ditch people who are accused of being Nazis, of using Nazi imagery in their creativity, this that or the other thing. We toss people because they attack other people. Not because of labels other people try to stick on them. And certainly not because we just don't like the way they look. Show me a Furry Raider attacking somebody, and they'll be banned as a matter of course. But don't come up to me saying I can only support Jewish and gay people by acting on prejudice, because the protection of the prejudiced is no protection at all.

I don't know why you're dragging 2 into this, but I'll tell you something. If someone like 2 is not safe from your Nazi-like persecution, nobody is. The only people I see in here spouting hateful, Nazi-like rhetoric is you, Deo and the rest of your witch hunting movement. A peace established by giving you lot the ability to become the dictators of this fandom is not a peace worth having. Just as when this was tried 10-15 years ago, peace will not be restored to the fandom until it has made your Neo-Burned Fur movement know in no uncertain terms that we will not be ruled by intolerance.

Your rating: None Average: 3.9 (20 votes)

1) It's absurd that I can link an image of Foxler saying "I hate black people" and your response is "he fancied a Nazi before he knew what one was, but that by itself isn't evidence of racism". He's a Nazi, he espouses their beliefs and embraces their decor. Deal with it.

2) Again, one does not have to be white, straight, and some hateful caricature to be a Nazi. Collaborators exist in every group. I can find you gay people against gay marriage, trans people against trans healthcare, women against women's suffrage. You are too busy being hung up on misapplied identity politics to accept the fact that the Furry Raiders are a neo-Nazi group, and it would be comical if it wasn't outright shameful.

3) "you must be able to show him hating on somebody for racial reasons" okay dude seriously i literally did

4) "one of the great failings of Furry Fandom is its belief in tolerance." actually, i said "UNIVERSAL tolerance", which is a) different and b) a concept that contradicts itself. You can't tolerate [people who hate some group] and [some group], it literally cannot work.

5) Kicking out Nazis and their supporters isn't prejudice. As your post demonstrates, it is the necessary action; Nazi beliefs are founded in hatred, and the liberalism that abets them is founded in an adherence to a nebulous ideology of "tolerance" which does nothing to help oppressed people -- the only thing people like you will listen to is the social ramifications of people not abiding your ideas such as "we should let Nazis be a part of our fandom".

6) 2 can jump in a pit. If you think me saying "Nazis and those who enable them should get the hell out of my fandom" is somehow Nazi-like rhetoric, go follow him.

Your rating: None Average: 1.9 (17 votes)

Look, you need to hear this fox tell his own story. After which you might say he was an idiot, and he pretty much agrees that he was an idiot. But we don't brand people as Nazi for life for being idiotically naïve when they were young.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJjHBKSt-N0

Excuse me? Being gay and being against gay marriage is not being a Nazi. I'm sure you've been told this before, but applying the word Nazi to everyone who has an opinion you don't like will only result in the word ceasing to hold any meaning at all.

Furry Fandom never had a concept of universal tolerance. There was always a line you could cross that would get you banned. You can't troll people here. You can't issue threats of violence. And you can't create disruptions that might prevent a site or event from functioning. All of which your movement is guilty as sin of.

No, I never said we should let actual Nazis be part of the fandom. I said we shouldn't ban people because trolls and Neo-Burned Furs go around slapping a label of Nazi on anyone they don't like. We have to see some evidence of hateful activity before we can take action. But that isn't acceptable to your lot. You want us to ban people just because of what you decide to call them. But apparently we would rather shut our cons down than knuckle under to such tyranny.

The fact is, because of the three rules above, a real Nazi can not function in this fandom. We already have rules in place to ban people who act like real Nazis. But there is no logic to the assumption that a Nazi would even want to be here. As Foxler himself demonstrates in the video, real Nazis do not like Furries.

Uh, actually, I do follow 2. I've been following 2 for 10 years. Haven't agreed with every single thing he's ever said. But that's a thing mature people get used to. He's allowed to have an opinion that contraries mine without my feeling obligated to condemn him for it. He hasn't always agreed with me either. It would actually be kind of scary if he did. It's even more scary to encounter someone like yourself, who disrespects him for having a mind of his own.

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That's weird, I could have sworn I didn't say "being gay and against gay marriage makes you a Nazi". I was pretty sure I said something to the effect of "collaborators exist in every group", and then I implied that LGBTQ folk (like myself) who are against same-sex marriage (not like myself) collaborate with heterosexism (which they do), regardless of their reason for doing so.

To address your idea of "there was always a line you could cross that would get you banned", the reality is that that line is generally hypothetical. If you say "same-sex marriage is wrong" people will say "well, that's your opinion" instead of "that's homophobic". If you say "I hate black people" people will say "well, you said that when you were young" not "that's racist". If you say "actually, Hitler stood up for his belief in exterminating the Jews, and that's good", people will break their fucking backs to bend over to say "well, you're not REALLY a Nazi, because if you were, you'd be banned, and you're not banned, so thus you can't be a Nazi".

There is no line when it comes to "universal tolerance" fetishists. It's always the horizon. When someone gets there, you will just say "well, the horizon's over there, and we're not at the horizon yet", no matter how far racists attempt to drag our fandom. Those like you will find any excuse, no matter how ridiculous, to justify any action, no matter how racist, and the rest of us will see racism for what it is and stamp it out whenever and wherever we can.

Your rating: None Average: 1.8 (11 votes)

"one does not have to be white, straight, and some hateful caricature to be a Nazi. Collaborators exist in every group. I can find you gay people against gay marriage"

What you did was state one doesn't have to be straight to be a Nazi, and then offered gays against gay marriage as an example. I don't know why you think you deserve license to back pedal on it. You certainly wouldn't give Foxler any latitude for back peddling.

And why back pedal? If you think gays who don't support gay marriage are Nazis, you should stand behind your beliefs. After all, it's going to be on the internet a long time, and the SJW's will never let you live it down. By your own example, any stupid thing that someone writes on the internet, even if they were young and naive at the time, is to be tattooed on their forehead for life.

The things that will get you banned from most Furry sites are not hypothetical. They are very well spelled out, and fairly consistent from site to site. Hate speech is not allowed, physical threats are a big no no. Anything that harms others will get you in trouble. Advocating abuse of children or animals will definitely get you in hot water. Any kind of crime you brag about having done will generally set some fur turning you in. But when it comes to opinions, everyone's entitled to theirs, assuming you want to be entitled to yours. So, even if somebody holds the opinion that Nazi uniforms are hot, you can express the opinion that you think that's disgusting, but that's about it.

Foxler admits in his video that he did type the hating blacks comment in a fit of exasperation at an artist who was screwing him out of a commission. The actual context of what he was trying to express was that black doesn't exist among Furries. So it wouldn't matter if he hated blacks. But of course context is never a consideration among trolls, the LOL crowd and SJW's. He said it. It's on the internet forever. And even if he's expressed regret for it a hundred times, that is never to be entered into consideration. You just get to brand him a Nazi and ruin the rest of his life.

But that's ok, because you've set the precedent, and you've given him the ammunition to brand you a homophobe. And don't go throwing out any buts, because you established the rules. There are no buts. There is no context. It's just what you wrote, jammed into the space of a tweet, ruining your reputation for all time. You sure you want to set that precedent?

I'm confused. What do fetishists have to do with racism? But, as for the rest of the paragraph, you know, my father is racist as all hell. He's a regular Archie Bunker. He's actually proud of the comparison. And there's not a damn thing I can do to change his racist opinions. So, what do you think I should do to this 91 year old invalid? Tell him he has no right to his opinions and threaten to kick him out in the street to die if he doesn't change them?

There's not a day that goes by in Furry Fandom that I don't run into somebody with some pretty whacked opinions. But then my opinions can be pretty radical as well. So, what do you expect me to do? Set myself up as some authority with the power to say which opinions are acceptable and which aren't? Nobody here has a right to do that.

But, you're right about one thing. The range of Furry ideas will extend out to the horizon and beyond, totally out of reach of anyone's control. And I'm terribly sorry you hold the opinion that this is a bad thing. But it is your opinion, and you're entitled to it, just like my father's entitled to his.

Yes, in life you will run into people who hold bigoted opinions. But as long as they're not letting their opinions lead them to hurt anybody, what goes on in their heads is not your territory to muck around in.

Your rating: None Average: 4 (9 votes)

Foxler admits in his video that he did type the hating blacks comment in a fit of exasperation at an artist who was screwing him out of a commission. The actual context of what he was trying to express was that black doesn't exist among Furries. So it wouldn't matter if he hated blacks. But of course context is never a consideration among trolls, the LOL crowd and SJW's.

Your rating: None Average: 1.9 (10 votes)

Go watch a fursuit parade sometime and try to tell who is black. What Foxler was getting at is at the core of Furry tolerance, the reason why Furry eradicates racism and makes it impossible for white supremacy to flourish here.

He's saying Furries generally do not put their real world mugs in your face like the picture above. Furries front themselves with Fursonas. And Fursonas hardly ever correspond to human distinctions. Thus, even at a convention where real faces are revealed, Furries continue to see each other as one thing, Furries. Thus, if Snoop was a Furry, even that picture above which is calculated in a racist manner to emphasize his blackness, would not allow Furries to see him as something different from themselves.

Unfortunately, Foxler is not terribly articulate. Particularly in a flustered situation. So it's easy to take him out of context. But his notion is correct. If Snoop was a Furry, he could stand on the Anthrocon stage beside 2 Gryphon, and Furries would draw no racial distinction between them.

Your rating: None Average: 2.7 (7 votes)

It took you three days to respond despite definitely being active on here and that's the best you could come up with?

Your rating: None Average: 3.8 (10 votes)

Foxler admits in his video that he did type the hating blacks comment in a fit of exasperation at an artist who was screwing him out of a commission. The actual context of what he was trying to express was that black doesn't exist among Furries. So it wouldn't matter if he hated blacks. But of course context is never a consideration among trolls, the LOL crowd and SJW's.

except we saw in feburary that it does.

so there is no context for this

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9KCwTaVwAANIfr.jpg ?

"I stand by [b]Hitler[/b]" ?

or are you going to post nonsense about context for this one too?

Your rating: None Average: 1.8 (10 votes)

Where in that does it say he hates blacks? And why are you building that up to be something new when the date clearly indicates it's from the period where he was trying to learn what a Nazi was?

Yeah, you're dang straight I'm going to bug you about the context. Deliberately posting something out of context is pretty much bold faced lying.

Your rating: None Average: 2.7 (7 votes)

you're defense of him is so cute.

So either you're related to him.
or he's paying you.
or you're somehow related to the Raiders.

literally nothing you say can be taken seriously.

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Oh, I assure you. The disrespect is entirely mutual.

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good.

cause I take the words of Winston Churchill to heart:

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.

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Yes, and you chose to stand for what Winston Churchill fought against with every fiber of his being. But on behalf of Furry Fandom I say to you, we shall defend our island. We will never surrender.

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You don't get to speak for the entirety of the furry fandom anymore than I do.

get off your sanctimonious high horse and realize that you're one person not an entire fandom.

Is this a sign that you have too much free time, btw.

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Sore wa jōdan desu. Baka.

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Whatever the cost may be. Live to fly. Fly to live. Do or die.
Sunweaver.

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She didn't get your reference dude.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg9aQvjMS60

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You have got to be kidding me. You just linked to a Youtube comment left by "starfoxacefox" as evidence. A *Youtube comment*. I've seen Hitler comment on Youtube, as well as Stalin and Ghandi and Jesus. I've seen Sans have a comment war with himself. Yet you put up a Youtube comment of someone claiming to be "starfoxacefox" to support an assertion as serious as open support for Hitler?

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That's the YouTube account he links on his Fur Affinity profile. :3

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"Being gay in a movement where history shows you'll be slaughtered the moment your usefulness ends doesn't seem very bright, does it?"

I will agree with you on this. But history has shown that people are easily convinced to act against their interests. Look at the behavior of the white proletariat in America, who continue to fight against people of color instead of attacking their genuine enemy, the bourgeoisie.

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Heh? Proletariat? Bourgeoisie? Who talks like that in this day and age?

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I don't know, the two billion people who have an understanding of the reality that class struggle has yet to end?

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Oh, I'm sure the class struggle in this country is well and truly lost. And I agree, people not realizing who their enemies are creates an insurmountable problem that dooms them to perpetual enslavement. But the terminology you use betrays the source of your political philosophy, and has the equivalent effect on Americans as wearing a Nazi armband.

You know, Nazi's are not the only people Americans traditionally fear and despise. You'll find your ideas will reach more attentive ears if you don't deliberately come off as a little red book toting communist, or George Orwell.

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Are you calling me a communist, or are you calling me Orwell (an anti-communist)? Your ideology is comically inconsistent.

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I'm not calling you anything, as I don't know you. I'm just pointing out that your choice of words is just as alarming as Foxler's choice of attire, making the two of you look like two sides of the same stupid coin. At least Foxler can be said to be hanging onto his poor choice of attire in order to offer the fandom a test of its open-mindedness. What's your excuse?

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Hm, yeah, you're right. Me using words that signify "people who do not own capital" and "people who do own capital" is part and parcel with Foxler saying "I hate black people". How could I not have seen this before? Thank you for showing me the error of my ways.

Cracks me up that, in your mystical world where Foxler and I are effectively the same person, you are willing to show acceptance for his neo-Nazi actions while condemning me for using the word "bourgeoisie".

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I'm not condemning you. I'm just telling you how you come off for your own good. And you come off that way for the same reason Foxler does. Because you're naïve as sin and have no perception of the world that exists beyond whatever book or website you're absorbing your political rhetoric off of.

You're just sitting here among all these regular talking folks, spouting cold war Communist rhetoric, and being totally mystified as to why anyone should be weirded out by it.

Yes, exactly like Foxler. But if I'm willing to let him slide on his armband, why wouldn't I let you slide on your language? You're free to talk any way you want. I'm just telling you the same thing I'd tell Foxler. You'd get far less controversy and get along much better with people if you didn't deliberately go out of your way to freak them out.

But, hey, maybe you guys are starting a popular new trend. "Squick The Furries," what a concept. A bit of poetic justice in there. And, of course, I support your right to do it, if that's what turns you on. But that doesn't mean I should lie to you and tell you it isn't an incredibly stupid thing to do.

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I'm not condemning you, but every time I've had an email notification about this article, I've cringed in the assumption that it was another of your comments. I thank you for your time in making this scale of defence of the people named as problematic actors in this article. However, I suggest you might find your time better spent doing something else. Possibly something that does not require the base assumption that someone who is "just" a white-nationalist racist agitator can't be called a nazi.

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For me it involves the base assumption that someone who has not been proven to be a white-nationalist racist agitator can't be called a Nazi without the application of prejudice. Can you even prove the dude is white?

As for the application of my time, some people seem to think their prejudice is worth the time to persecute our entertainers and destroy our conventions. I would think myself morally remiss if I did not consider the cause of freedom and justice worth the same amount of time.

*yawns* But I must admit. Sleep would be good.

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persecute our entertainers

Assuming you're talking about 2 here...what exactly is your definition of "persecution" that you think it's applicable?

Actually my question stands whether it's about 2 or not.

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2, besides being trolled out of a job, is constantly being trolled on Twitter. I also heard something about Telephone being trolled to tears. Trolling is a form of persecution. Not that 2 isn't well capable of handling it. Really, I almost feel sorry for those trolls. They obviously have no idea who they're messing with. I fully expect 2 to come back with a vengeance when he feels the time is right.

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"Trolled out of a job"? Anthrocon showing integrity and listening to the concerns of the attendees of their private event about his antics is persecution? Sorry, that's a definition so useless it's funny.

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2's influence over the past fifteen years derived in part from his privileged access to the means of production - conventions. Having lost that access, he may find it harder to "come back". Furry fandom is far larger nowadays, and new talent is hungry to make its mark.

2's spiel has ventured into areas where he doesn't agree with the furry mainstream for some time, and his numbers allegedly decreased.
A new programming director came in, and made a fresh choice based on the data. (That's their position, anyway. It might not be the whole truth, but he's had a long run.)

Of course, he has Twitter and YouTube - but so does everyone, and if you looked at his latest videos, you might think he was a gamer. His own website is stuck in a time-warp from 2012. These things may be part of the problem.

As for Telephone, I understand there's an issue relating to an attempt to exert control over the concept of (Dutch) Angel Dragons and the organization of events relating to them, at Anthrocon and elsewhere. From what I heard at NordicFuzzCon, it'd make an interesting story for Flayrah, along with the wider topic of closed/open species.

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And just as 2 said "Well I'll rely on Youtube", Youtube decided to cull in advertising dollars from controversial content in order to appease advertisers.

2 must have broken a mirror upon a black cat that knocked over a salt shaker, which then proceed to flee under a ladder.

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Being as 2 is now focusing on Let's Plays, the bulk of his content is not all that controversial. But I fear there is another reason why he has cut down on the rants. I can hear it in his voice. He's getting old and no longer has the vocal power he wielded 10 years ago. He's thin and frail looking, and has even ended up in the hospital on occasions for what he says was malnutrition. This is making me fear something may be wrong with him.

But, be that as it may, even if 2 is not capable of doing all he could before, that would not justify tossing him away like an old shoe with extreme rudeness. That would not justify furs snickering at his decline. He has done good for this
fandom in his time, and he is due some gratitude and respect.

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"Please kill yourself as soon as possible." —2 Gryphon

That's the guy you're supporting?

That's the guy you think deserves respect?

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Context? That's something that's especially important with comedians.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

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Not sure it's worth the trouble. The context is how people claim 2 never said these things. He has, multiple times and without apology, even after people have killed themselves. He cries crocodile tears and uses it as a punchline. It's reckless and irresponsible and disgusting, no matter how much he wants to couch it as free speech or whatever.

When you show proof he did say it, people claim it's just a joke.

When you show proof it wasn't a joke, people claim it's out of context.

Among all the excuses and denials the one thing nobody ever hear from 2's defenders is them admitting yes, this was a reckless, irresponsible, and disgusting thing to say.

That's the guy you think deserves respect?

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I don't know when he supposedly said things. He probably has sometimes said insensitive things, I doubt there's a comedian that hasn't. Heck, when Trevor Noah took over The Daily Show there were even people claiming that he was anti-Semitic and other nonsense.

Today people just love to find something to get all outraged about and don't care who gets caught up in it. Apparently calling people Nazis is the "in" thing right now. People did it to 2 but from when I listened to him, he is far from a Nazi.

I guess that's just how things are these days. Either you agree 100% or you are some sort of terrible person who deserves no respect or consideration.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

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2 did say that, but the context was in trying to make people see that killing themselves because a troll insulted them was stupid and was not going to make either the troll or 2 feel sorry for them. Basically he was trying to tell people they shouldn't commit suicide for the purpose of getting sympathy. He was questionably harsh, but not incorrect. Giving sympathy to people like that only encourages them to hurt themselves.

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Alright, if we're going to bring up naivete and having no perception of the world, let's do just that.

You're the person twice my age who writes off my usage of terms like "proletariat" and "class struggle" as "cold war Communist rhetoric", both condemning those terms to history as if they weren't still relevant and condemning them to the WRONG point in history as if they weren't concepts discussed in the 1800s.

You're the person who acts as if I'm totally mystified by the notion that you would be weirded out by my usage of those terms, despite the fact that I'm not mystified at all -- I'm well aware that the average American is not raised to have any sense of class understanding and is quite frankly raised to run screaming from horrifying "Soviet" words such as "bourgeoisie".

You're the person who is willing to tolerate Foxler, a guy who looks like a Nazi, acts like a Nazi, and quacks like a Nazi, despite the fact that, historically, tolerance of Nazis has lead to the proliferation of Nazis. Such tolerance of intolerance is an act of naivete if ever I have seen one. Even Hitler, a guy who presumably knew a thing or two about his movement, himself pointed out that his movement would have ground to a halt had it been smashed from the moment it begun with "utmost brutality". Only a fool would look at 80+ years of history and come to the conclusion that the best way to end such a movement would be to turn a blind eye to a guy who is CLEARLY not simply "making a poor choice of attire", not simply "using Nazi imagery in his creativity", but has in fact identified with Hitler and stated that he hates black people.

You're the person who buys into identity politic such as the idea that "homosexuals can't be Nazis because the Nazis persecuted homosexuals", denying history outright, and "true Scotsman" rhetoric such as the idea that "real Nazis hate furries, thus a furry can't be a Nazi" (which I guess would class this guy as a "fake Nazi" by such logic, and as others in this thread have pointed out, playing at being something is frequently a step towards being that thing), or that "we already have rules in place to ban people who act like Nazis", which is a pretty nebulous statement given that if "we" here should be interpreted as "the furry fandom", then "we" are at best an EXTREMELY loose community of people who are not concentrated in any one central location and we do not have one central power to just "ban" anyone from the furry fandom at the flip of a switch.

I get how I come across. I'm being abrasive and blunt here. And if I thought that you weren't already disinclined to hear me out because I'm refuting your ideas, maybe I'd be concerned with avoiding those scary communist words or calling you foolish. However, it's pretty clear that you've had your mind made up from square one and would rather call me a Nazi for saying that Nazis are crap than see this guy for what he is, so I might as well just say what I need to say and feel how I feel, and hopefully other people see where I'm coming from. Even if my approach isn't "respectable", not that any approach is "respectable" enough if someone just isn't willing to hear it, maybe some people will be like "whoa, maybe this dude who has said some racist stuff and bedecks himself in Nazi iconography isn't entitled to the benefit of the doubt, just because he's a member of a subculture which often touches on the topic of sexuality".

Anyway, the reality of the situation is that it is not the form of my statements that you find repulsive, it is their content, and to make this about their form is to once again refuse to refute the evidence I have given and arguments I've made. So go and reflect more on what I and other people in these comments have said and less on how it's been said, and maybe we can have the pretense of civility if we ever bump into one another at a convention someday. Not this convention, of course, but perhaps some convention.

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I swear, this is the first time I've ever done this in my life.

TL:DR

No, actually I read the whole thing, but I got so lost in the run-on sentances that I did not comprehend a single idea well enough to respond to it.

I get the basic gist that you want me to hate this guy on the basis of your evidence, which is minor compared to the voluminous material I studied on the guy. I get that that you hate people on the basis of appearances. I get that you think people who look like Nazis suck and people who act like you don't. I get that you are trying to badger me into sharing your illogical hatred of someone who hasn't done anything.

Now see if you can wrap your brain around this. What you're asking me to do is unAmerican. I wouldn't defend this guy if there was a snowball's chance in hell he's an actual Nazi. Sit down and watch the damn videos. Get to know the guy before you condemn him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxoAtXb6-Kg

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You spent days "researching" a guy who's almost 30 and the best argument you can make in his defense is "he didn't know what Nazis were". I suggest you stop commenting about the real world and stick to fiction. It's clearly what you're best suited for.

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Let's call this the 'Sean Spicer Defence'.

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Actually I suspect they aren't 'almost 30', they put their age as "29", which is Hitler's age minus 100. Before they had set it as 128 [last year]. I think people caught on and he reworked it to be something more 'reasonable'.

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After reading his words and watching the video he comes off as an asshole that uses fascist imagery because it's an easy way to get a rise out of people for attention.

Since he really wants to use that kind of iconography why shouldn't we just take him at face value and just label him a nazi and be done with it?

It's just dickish behavior.

I'm sure he's making his family proud.

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Because taking things at face value is small-minded and ignorant, not to mention unbecoming of those who would like to condemn someone as small-minded and ignorant. I'm not saying you should like the guy or anything. I'm just saying persecuting a fur for being stupid is . . . well, stupid. And someday you might find out just how stupid it is when some Antifa finds an excuse to slap a label of Nazi on you.

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You miss the point but that seems to be a pattern here.

He can easily not be labeled a Nazi as soon as he stops trying to provoke people with that imagery.

If I were run around a shirt that says "beat women with a bat" should you give me the benefit of that doubt that I'm trying to do something artistic and nuanced?

Just last year 2 furs I knew where gunned down by another fur so pardon me if I take people making threats seriously these days.

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Tell that to Deo, who started this whole mess by threatening to punch Foxler and other Raiders, and then later uploaded an animation of her sona punching out Foxler.

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No, she didn't.

I didn't realize 'these Nazis' referred to one person in particular. I'll remember that the next time I'm playing Wolfenstein 3D

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If you look up the tweet it was in direct response to foxler

Hence why another Raider had made the comment about watching Deo get shot

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I have looked at the tweet.

I don't see foxler's twitter handle.

I see artdecaderoo.

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Alright, so maybe she didn't respond directly to Foxler, but she did have Furry Raiders tagged in her response. Points for leaving out the fact that the Raiders were tagged though.

Now, while I do think bringing a gun to a convention is a smidgeon bit too far...it still doesn't negate the fact that she still threatened the Raiders.

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>it still doesn't negate the fact that she still threatened the Raiders.

It's what the Raiders want to draw a person into a confrontation with the "U mad bro?" attitude. The gun dick waving was just troll topping.

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This. But don't expect a Sunweaver to understand. They think I'm a "troll" afterall. Where a troll is someone who tries to get you into a "U mad bro?" situation. Passive aggression.

I just know what the Sunweavers think/feel/act like after tolerating them for so many years. I will continue to tolerate them, but I think they should be called out on their bullshit from time to time.

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I don't know why I keep getting lumped in with the rest of the Sunweavers. I mean I know I'm part of their "Group", but I barely partake in their chats and I just joined since a friend of mine was part of the group. I've never actually sat in for any of their chats so I had no idea they were like that, if they are really at all.

Getting back on point, yeah that's true. It's like when I play Counter Strike and someone goes "Are You A Furry?" Uh oh, better get ready for them to try to troll me. That's what some folks want after all, some overzealous fur to waste time debating a troll on why the fandom is legit.

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I was talking about Perri. But you're her white knight, so why would you not get "lumped in" by affiliation? You did join of your own volition and you know how Perri is already.

I just presume you and Perri talk outside of this thread. It seems obvious that you do; though you'll have to pardon that I didn't take the time to google your names and figure out such things. lol!

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Eh, yeah we do. But there's been quite the number of times where we don't see eye-to-eye on things. I guess I just thought you meant me since either you or someone else included me in "The Sunweavers" group or whatever.

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I don't think she meant the raiders when she said 'these nazis'.

but, I'm also can't claim to know who or what she had in mind because I'm not her.

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"Alarmist"? Really? That's the issue you see wrong with dressing up like a Nazi and saying you hate Black people?

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The class struggle was won by fursuiters and porn artists over a decade ago… or so it would seem, but the strings are ultimately pulled by influential convention board members and furry media moguls.

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I look at it more like the fandom put down an attempt to install tyranny. As I learned well from my encounter with Improved Anthro, aka Burned Fur 2, it was never about getting rid of the porn and fursuiters, as every site they set up seemed to have Yiff in the title. They just wanted to grab power. Just as I'm sure this new incarnation of the Burned Fur plague has nothing to do with Nazi hunting. That's just another means to an end. I'm sure it's just another bunch of little would-be Hitlers wanting the power to tell you what you can and can't do on Wikifur.

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Over the years seeing furs play around with the Nazi imagery I just think of this quote:

“We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.”
― Kurt Vonnegut, Mother Night

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Forgive my foolish sarcasm, but I find it highly doubtful that any amount of pretending is going to turn me into a blue haired anthropomorphic rabbit.

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Lol,Fair enough.

In the book Mother Night (Source of the quote) you have a man living in Germany in the 30s that gets recruited by united states intelligence as a spy. He spends his time as a playwright propagandist and becomes rather popular. In the end it didn't matter that he was a spy the things he did helped the Nazis. You run around like a Nazi does it really matter if you actually believe the shit?

This fandom has too many edgelords spending their time being dicks for attention.

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But all evidence of his personality suggests he's an idealist attempting to communicate a lesson in tolerance,

wow, you really are doing your level best to defend him...

hmm..I wonder why...

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The suggestion that she has something to gain by defending Foxler (or is a friend/supporter or getting something in return) is laughable.

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Dunno, I think someone who has art of characters that are "Nazifurs" but explicitly are "NOT villains" on their public profiles might have something to lose if using Nazi aesthetics for fun gets more than the normal amount of negative attention.

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The character in question, which I'm assuming is Serval, is from the town Webberton, which does this rather queer mix between Communist and Nazi ideals. The whole "She's not a villain" is that she's just doing her job and enforcing what she feels are her true ideologies. After all, everyone is a hero in their own story. What villain ever really truly feels that they're being a villain?

I was unaware that people were capable of digesting basic literary fiction themes, but I guess because Perri doesn't explictly say "YES, SERVAL IS EVIL" that must mean she obviously supports their ideas.

Good Lord don't ever read anything that strides away from basic black-and-white thinking - or else you might think the wrong thing of the author!

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I wasn't saying anything about whether the character's creator supports the ideology of the character (which I didn't even know about until you gladly offered). Actually what I was talking about was "using Nazi aesthetics for fun", which is what Perri is claiming Foxler is doing and what Perri is defending.

Thanks for the synopsis of your friend's Nazi roleplay scenario though I guess? Didn't ask.

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It's actually from one of her stories.

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I actually don't know anyone involved in this business who is using Nazi imagery for fun. When I use it, it's serious social allegory. And The Furry Raiders aren't using it for fun either.

Technically they're not using it at all, as a paw print hardly qualifies as Nazi imagery. But because of the prejudice the community has lavished on it, The Raiders now see the armbands as a device to demonstrate to the community it's shameful capacity for prejudice. And they're going to keep right on wearing them until this fandom remembers that only bigots judge people on the basis of appearances without getting to know the person inside.

Think of it as a means of fighting back against the Antifa Furs who have laid waste to the community's reputation for tolerance. They're putting themselves through hell to save the soul of The Furry Community. And I don't see any evidence there's any fun in that at all. You could call it noble, altruistic, admirable; or you could call it foolhardy, naive, a lost cause. But no way would you ever call it fun.

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> The Raiders now see the armbands as a device to demonstrate to the community it's shameful capacity for prejudice.

Obviously it is failing due to feeling a bit too much like fascist iconography. Perhaps if they weren't such trolls they might try a different tactic.

Perhaps a hat or t-shirt?

Oh! How about a shirt with a paw with it's middle finger out with the text "Don't Judge"? That would totally help build community.

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is that she's just doing her job

that's what they claimed at Nuremberg too.

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Actually, you hit the nail right on the head. As a free form Science Fiction writer I have a hell of a lot at stake when it comes to foiling the advocates of censorship, as does every other writer and artist in this fandom, whether they have totalitarian characters or not.

None of us are going to sit still for being told we can't have totalitarian characters in a story that calls for them. No one's going to sit still for being told they have to write WW2 stories without Nazis.

Frankly, the right to have military type furs in a story is not my favorite thing to defend, but if we allow that to be taken away just because somebody doesn't like it, where could we expect it to stop? No doubt it would not stop at all until everything we could possibly have written about would have been eliminated.

So, yeah, it's a separate issue from Foxler and 2 Gryphon. But if they're going to go after the writers, it's not a battle I could avoid if I wanted to. And I don't particularly want to. I don't think a Furry writer worth his salt would want to miss a chance to fight back against censorship.

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Thing is, you think people being against people, "ironically" or otherwise, presenting themselves as Nazis/fascists is the same as writing about a fascist character, and for some reason really strongly identify with people who say things like, "I stand with Hitler" as if being abused by your parents makes that okay.

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No I don't think it's ok. Foxler doesn't think it's ok. He feels really stupid about it. He'd take it back if you'd let him.

The thing is, you have to think back to when you were younger. Can you honestly say you never said anything stupid that you wish like hell you hadn't said? Can you honestly say you never spoke out of total ignorance? For that matter, are you so sure that someday a more mature you won't look back on this day and cringe at the thought of how you joined in the persecution of another human being you didn't even know?

No, it's not ok to say what he said. Nor is it ok for you to deny him the possibility of having grown up to become a better person.

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There you go with the persecution stuff again. Lmao.

Frankly I would be more sympathetic to his ~~totally changed ways~~ if his apology didn't involve pretending he didn't know what Nazis are. Or if his pinned tweet wasn't still explicitly associating himself with the "alt-right" and wearing his totally not Nazi-inspired armband around other people in public. You know, I don't care what kind of evil disgusting thoughts this guy has in his own head, if someone comes up to me wearing Nazi regalia, I'm considering that a threat.

Don't try that "he was young and stupid" bullshit anymore. The age difference between him now and him a few months ago is negligible, I can't believe you actually think anyone's gonna buy that. And yet you've spent half these messages disparaging others as "trolls"? Fuck outta here

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"Always be yourself and never let anyone change you, forever and always furry." That just drips of Nazi ideology, doesn't it?

Strangely, the people he's around don't seem to be bothered at all. They're treating him like any other fursuiter.

And, what does his limited broken English skills in those tweets tell you about his intelligence and naivete levels? Basically he's an idealist child in a man's body, trying to stand for some foolish idea that one should be free to express themselves in any way that works, even if it's tasteless.

Look, I'm sorry your paranoia of a piece of red cloth blinds you to it, but beyond the armband he's got innocence written all over him. He does not understand why you hate him to extremes that would do a white supremacist proud. You haven't even noticed that, because of that innocence, he can't even hate you back.

Anyway, if you're going to be so paranoid of an armband that has no military relevance, but merely bears the symbol of your own fandom, why stop there? Are you that scared of encountering people in Muslim dress too? Does passing strange black people on the street set you clutching your can of mace?

For that matter, have you ever warn a fursuit? Has the thought ever occurred to you how difficult it would be for someone in such a heavy, cumbersome suit to hurt anybody? Has it ever occurred to you how vulnerable to serious injury and death he would be if you were to attack him?

And you Lmao at the thought of persecuting this guy. You know, Foxler is right. He doesn't have a problem. His heart's in the right place. He's going through hell for you, because you've got the problem, and he's putting his very life on the line to help you get over it.

One of these days one of these Antifa nutcases is going to attack him and probably kill him. And you'll probably have a party to celebrate, because then you'll be able to feel safe. Or will you?

You think there'll ever come a day where you won't feel threatened in the world devoid of compassion you're unreasoning paranoia is helping to create? Like hell you ever will.

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Since you're so intent on slurping Fox Hitler's knob like he's the furry jesus, could you please try to channel this commenting into personal fanfic for him? It would really lighten the headache you're causing and then nobody will have to read it, like those 8 novels or whatever. thank you

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Now now now, that's no way for a professional journalist to behave.

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There's nothing offensive, nor evil about Islamic fashion.
Classsssssssssssssssssic Sunweaver.

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Also, if your point was "I know there's nothing offensive or evil about the clothes Muslims wear" then you forgot that Normal Nazi = Holocaust = Real Assholes
While it has been perfectly clear and openly addressed that ISIS are radical terrorists and not normal Islam.

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He's going through hell for you, because you've got the problem, and he's putting his very life on the line to help you get over it

wow, for second to last comment on here, I've got to say this: you've got a messianic hardon for Foxler in the way that the nazis had for hitler.

i'd suggest seeking help.

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So after reading up on flayrah, and inkbunny and how the creator/founder feels about transgender people I've decided to end my association with both so I don't becme associated with that to friends (see how that works Perri? amazing isn't it!)

last comment here.

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Oh, okay, so Foxler is a naive and/or mentally disabled manchild (sorry, child in a man's body) who not only doesn't know what Nazis are, he doesn't know that saying "I stand with Hitler" and saying he hates Black people is wrong, or that trying to convince underage girls to run away from their parents for him and sending them money to groom them is wrong, or wearing symbols intentionally designed to resemble a Nazi swastika is wrong, posing for photographs in a Nazi salute is wrong, being paid hundreds of dollars to stalk and "hunt down" people is wrong, French-kissing puppies is wrong, pretending that you were ignorant of how hating Black people and standing with Hitler is wrong while elsewhere claiming you're just "trolling" is wrong, pleading to known, public, unabashed white supremacists with no connection to the fandom or to him for support from people against white supremacy is wrong...the list goes on.

Jeez, seems like there's so much Foxler doesn't know. Maybe someone should tell him that he's doing things that are unconscionable. Then he could change his ways and apologize and not need you to defend him from my evil persecution of having never talked to the guy. Oh wait, people have. :/

merely bears the symbol of your own fandom

Sorry, not in the Nazi fur fandom.

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He'd take it back if you'd let him.

no one is stopping him from denouncing his nazi ways.

but instead of denouncing it, he doubles down while people like you buy that he's innocent an just a kid.

Can you honestly say you never said anything stupid that you wish like hell you hadn't said?

sure and guess what? i was called on it right then and there and accepted it. i didn't double down and then have shills claim i was just a kid.

Nor is it ok for you to deny him the possibility of having grown up to become a better person.

again no one's done anything like that.

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as does every other writer and artist in this fandom, whether they have totalitarian characters or not.

as an actual, real life, in a book writer in this fandom, all I can say is speak for yourself.

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Oh, really? You wouldn't mind me censoring your books? You wouldn't cringe to see black magic marker lines obscuring your thoughts, your ideas that you sweat long into the night to create? I'm so intrigued as to what you might have publish that you hold in such low regard. Brag a little. What have you written?

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Woah did a Burned Fur army print off your stories from Fur Affinity and then write all over the pages in Sharpie? That's fucked up, you should go to the police about that, those trolls are fursecuting you and taking away your right to never have anyone say anything bad about you!

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a short story in an anthology for a wolf sanctuary.

and why would I care? you paid money for it. money that, in this particularly case, went help animals.

Do I hold it in low regard? nope.

Did you pay your money and have the right to do with what you want. It's not like there's only one copy.

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A short story in an anthology? How pathetic. And here for a moment I thought I was talking to a contemporary. My website currently contains the content of some 8 novels. It would seem you have no background to appreciate the concerns of more dedicated authors.

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Wow. Do you honestly think that quantity defines the validity of any creative person? Or that amount of work published adds weight to any argument in this context? A comment like that should really make you reconsider how you judge people, including yourself.

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An author who doesn't care about censorship is not an author that can be taken seriously, especially with only one short story to her credit, which must be total crap if it means so little to her. After all, if an author doesn't value her work, why should anyone else?

Writing is my life. It's something I've struggled to do with integrity and pride since the 70's. My freedom to write without censorship is sacred. Any author who would sign off on censorship is no contemporary of mine; not in the same league at all. I might even go so far as to call her a traitor to the profession.

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My website currently contains the content of some 8 novels.

ah, but were they published?

nope.

my "pathetic" short story was.

thus, me > you if you reall want to get into this game. Unlike you, I'm not FAmous.

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Perri's childish and illogical attack already made you the winner here, there's no need to descend to their level.

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BTW, Perri.

My "pathetic" short story helped ensure that wolves have a safe place to live.

Can your website and it's 8 novels say the same thing?

that alone makes my story awesome.

like i said, it's not like there's only one copy of the story. people paid money to do with their copy as they want, it's no harm done to me if they decided to color all over it. it helped endangered animals.

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That is a good question. Like 2 Gryphon I went out to research this guy and his group. I went looking for the evidence of Nazi affiliation and behavior. Specifically there was some mention of death threats from the group. I especially wanted to see those. But the only 2 people who claimed to have received them wouldn't make them available for my investigation. And whoever heard of a Furry receiving a real death threat and not immediately posting it to the internet for everyone to see?

In the end this left me with not a scrap of evidence against The Furry Raiders that could be located. Thus there was nothing I could do but investigate the individuals themselves. And this was not difficult, since they have about 3 YouTube channels that offer an extensive look into their personalities and beliefs for anyone who's actually interested.

So I spent days going through these videos, looking for anything that could be remotely considered pro-Nazi. But that is just not what they do. Besides being a normal Furry fan club, they're an emotional support group for abused Furries, particularly those who have suffered during these witch hunts.

Listening to this one kid talk about the lifetime of abuse he'd suffered at the hands of his parents, only to come to Furry Fandom and be accused of being a Nazi, hounded and abused until he couldn't feel safe in the community, and no one willing to look out for him at all except these Furry Raiders ... I jest you not. To watch this was heart breaking.

But still I continued to investigate Foxler, if just to make sure this kid would be safe with him. And gradually I began to understand that, though Foxler is hardly what could be called the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree, there's little doubt that his heart is in the right place, and that his group is rooted in altruism, not Nazism. Seriously, there is no way to mistake one for the other. And anyone who cared enough to do the research would see that easily.

Of course, no one else is going to do the research. I'm sure even 2 didn't take the time to sit through all those videos. And surely no SJW is going to do it. They're only interested in things they can stuff into a tweet. And tweets are not designed with the capacity to hold the truth.

Yes, I defend Foxler and will continue to do so until I see some evidence that can not be debunked which proves he's what he's being accused of. Until then I have no choice but to assume his attackers are nothing more than over glorified trolls.

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You'd think a fandom that's had to put up with being fake news'd would know better.

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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9KCwTaVwAANIfr.jpg

then apparently you haven't researched hard enough.

Speaking of fake news..here's me questioning your disability. see how this works? I can claim to have investigated you and found that you're lying. doesn't mean I actually do.

Until then I have no choice but to assume his attackers are nothing more than over glorified trolls.

then I'm questioning if there isn't a touch of men..naw, won't go there. i'll just say that the evidence is staring you in the face and it's starting to sound like you're willfully ignorant.

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Your evidence has been viewed, it's context been explained, his acknowledgement of having been an undereducated child at the time who didn't know what a Nazi was has been linked. Your evidence proves only the failure of our educational system and the fact that people may say anything before they've collected all the facts. Which is actually what you're doing right now, as your evidence of the dumb kid he used to be says not one thing about the man he is now - a man you have no intension of even trying to get to know, because that doesn't fit your agenda.

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didn't know what a Nazi was

Is that what you really believe?

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Frankly, yes. I totally buy it, for the very reason that none of the people attacking him seem to know what a Nazi is either. If they did, they'd be hunting themselves.

They're the ones jackbooting their way through the community, spreading unreasoning hate, trying to take away everyone's rights, destroying our institutions. That stuff is what defines a Nazi. But they either don't know that, or they don't care what we fought the damn war to preserve.

I don't see any evidence that any young people I might meet in the fandom today have anything but the vaguest impression of what a Nazi is. Why should Foxler be any different when he had less education than most?

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If they did, they'd be hunting themselves.

for what exactly?

They're the ones jackbooting their way through the community, spreading unreasoning hate, trying to take away everyone's rights, destroying our institutions.

do you even understand what you're saying? unreasoned hate? against a nazi?

and what rights are they trying to take away? can you actually name real rights that are supposedly being destroyed?

I don't see any evidence that any young people

ah, we get to the crux of the problem!

Why should Foxler be any different when he had less education than most?

oh please...

what is your connection to the Raiders? to RMFC?

are you being paid? Cause I've seen better trolling.

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Yes, my dear. Against an alleged Nazi or anyone else, unreasoning hate remains unreasoning hate. Did you really think simply slapping the word Nazi on someone gave you carte blanch to indulge your unfettered bigotry? Did you really think we'd let you persecute people without checking to see if there was actual evidence against them? Did you really think you could justify making a Nazi of yourself by falsely applying that word to the innocent?

The rights you would destroy are the rights to freedom of speech, the right of personal expression, freedom of the press, the right to govern our own community by our own standards, and even the right to freedom of religion, if tolerance be an aspect of our shared belief system.

You have never seen such fine trolling? What a compliment from such a successful troll who has just laid an entire convention to waste. Unfortunately I must decline the compliment, as you are an outside invader in my home trolling myself and my fellow furs. You are the 13th at the table. You are the uninvited guest.

I have no real connection to Foxler at this time, other than someone who has thoroughly studied him to determine his likely guilt or innocence of the charges levelled against him.

Truth be told I don't represent Foxler at all, nor do I represent 2 Gryphon, who is perfectly capable of taking care of himself. I don't even have thing one to do with RMFC. I'm here to defend my fandom and my own rights from obsessive totalitarian minded attackers who think they can just march into my territory and take over something that doesn't belong to them without being challenged.

Tell me, by whose authority do you attempt to police the community that belongs to all Furries? Who gave you the authority to terrorize the helpless and destroy their sense of security? Who gave you the authority to set my friends to morning for the tolerance you laid to waste? No one gave you that authority, because no one has it to give.

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Tell me, by whose authority do you attempt to police the community that belongs to all Furries?

Ironic coming from the person who has said:

My agenda is to see these crimes properly addressed, the instigators of these crimes removed, and the fandom restored to a state I do not have to feel ashamed to call my home.

and:

I urge the fandom to rally against them, to ban them wherever they practice their hateful persecution, and to label them with the name they have so justly earned, that of Neo-Burned Furs

So you get to blacklist people from the fandom for saying, "Christ, that 2 guy's a fucking asshole", but other people don't get to blacklist people for galivanting about as Nazis and spouting Nazi rhetoric and attending and supporting far-right nationalist speeches or maligning transgender and transsexual people? Cool. I love what the concept of "tolerance" has seemed to mean for furries.

Anyway, knock it off with the Burned Fur nonsense. They don't really exist anymore and as far as people who support them go, well, if you'd done as much "research" into Foxler as you say you'd know he literally supports the Burned Fur movement. Whoops.

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What a compliment from such a successful troll who has just laid an entire convention to waste.

sorry, I didn't have anything to do with RMFC

and sorry, I'm not an outsider. I've been in the fandom since I was 18.

Tell me, by whose authority do you attempt to police the community that belongs to all Furries? Who gave you the authority to terrorize the helpless and destroy their sense of security? Who gave you the authority to set my friends to morning for the tolerance you laid to waste?

it's ironic that you speak of tolerance while being intolerant to those who stand against Nazism. You would have been seen as a nazi sympathizer during WWII for talking like this.
I've never claimed authority over anything, so what you're doing is projecting.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9XfmUC4QMs

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How old do you think Foxler is? 8 years old? Did he drop out of school after 3rd grade? You learn about WWII about 6 times between middle and high school. And you honestly believe that he "didn't know what Nazis are. He starts backpedaling when he gets into hot water, it's disappointing you seem to not understand that.

But I suppose when you say things like "it doesn't matter if he hates black people," you really are a lost cause.

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He's probably about as old as you. He's obviously from that generation, or group of generations, that doesn't know anything but the most rudimentary aspects of history, thinks it's perfectly fine to base their entire view of society on their own under-educated views, and become a catalyst for turning society upside down by forcing their issues.

Fortunately Foxler's ideas are reasonably good. He's into things like equality, inclusiveness, artistic encouragement and general love and tolerance. Which seems pretty angelic when compared to his Antifa opposition who want to gag free speech, promote violence and generally terrorize the world into supporting their views.

And, yes, it doesn't matter if he wrote "I hate black people" in some context that is difficult to interpret in his (3rd grade is a good way to describe it) writing style. What matters is he's in a loving relationship with a black man. So his actions trump the statement.

Then there is your actions which have to be taken into consideration. You say you learned about WW2 6 times in middle school and high school. Yet you are today so clueless about what constitutes a Nazi that you think a gay half-breed Furry in a relationship with a black man and running a multiracial group for the promotion of equality and tolerance qualifies as one. And no amount of people telling you how incredibly freakin' stupid that is will get through to you in the least.

Nope, you both come from a generation that will not acknowledge any stupid thing you want to believe could be wrong, no matter how much proof of your stupidity is thrown in your faces.

For the record, Foxler is just as clueless as you. His view of The Furry Community as a place that was ever loving, tolerant and inclusive is total wishful thinking. I broke the ground this community sits on. And I can attest it was always a hotbed of conflict and intolerance where people were hated on by others and driven away.

So Foxler's cause is just as delusional as yours. The only thing I give him credit for is having his heart in the right place. He's not a would-be bigot searching desperately for something besides race to be able to lavish prejudice and hate on with impunity. But I highly suspect he is a bit of an imp who takes amusement in encouraging you to find what he calls "Easter eggs" all over the net, for the specific purpose of getting you to display to the world just how stupid and intolerant you can be.

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So his actions trump the statement.

it really, really doesn't.

watch the news the next time you get a chance. especially when the KKK is mentioned. or a trump rally since they're really the same thing.

the first thing to come out of a racists mouth is "some of my best friends are black/hispanic". the first words out of a homophobic person's mouth? "I have gay friends!"

this is the nonverbal equivalent.

Like I said, I would have expected a woman with 8 unpublished novels on her website to know better, and yet...here we are.

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"Some of my best friends are black" does not compare to "I'm in a loving relationship with one." Seriously, what is wrong with you that you can not distinguish the difference between love and hate?

Sure, circumstances might force you to have some black friends at work, and you might not think that proves anything. But you have to love people to jump into bed with them and want to spend the rest of your life with them. Oh, but, never mind. I get that love is something you wouldn't know anything about. Nobody loves a hater.

But seriously, if somebody has gay friends, they can't be a homophobe. A phobia is something you can't stand being around. You can't be best friends with your phobia. So if a KKK says it, he's lying, and you can verify that. Likewise the reality of Foxler's relationship is easily verified.

If you're going to argue this stuff, could you please try to use some logic? I know you're used to getting along without it in this age of ever dropping IQ's, but older folks still tend to expect it.

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if somebody has gay friends, they can't be a homophobe.

Likewise the reality of Foxler's relationship is easily verified.

sure you can. I would suggest reading up on racial fetishism.

here, grandma, let me give you a helping hand.

Racial fetishism involves fetishizing a person or culture belonging to a race or ethnic group that is not one’s own—therefore it involves racial/ethnic stereotyping and objectifying those bodies who are stereotyped, and at times their cultural practices

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Ironically that Bill O'Reilly thing is happening right now, isn't it?

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yep!

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a man you have no intension of even trying to get to know

sorry, i don't befriend Nazis.

the fact that you actually think he was just being a dumb kid is laughable. You do understand that we do learn about the Nazis in Middle and High School right?

In an article dated February 2017, he claims to be 29 years old which means he was born in 1988 without an exact date I can't verify one way or another. Which means he also had access to the internet.

So no, sweetie, he wasn't "learning what a nazi was". Unless he's been living under a rock he's know what a nazi was. all he had to do was look in the mirror.

and Perri? Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

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Do you by chance know what year it is? Do you have any idea how removed WW2 is from modern times? Are you aware of how out of touch with history a young person would be if their life was consumed by video games and trendy entertainment. And the fact remains, you're not that much smarter than he is, and not one tenth as compassionate. Nazi's are nothing to you but a license to persecute other people. They are something that you admire and emulate far more than Foxler does. Go on, deny it.

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Do you by chance know what year it is? Do you have any idea how removed WW2 is from modern times?

1. history books and the internet are available.
2.He has every reason to read up on it now. If he continues to espouse those beliefs...

And the fact remains, you're not that much smarter than he is, and not one tenth as compassionate.

because I'm not a blind sheep like you?

Nazi's are nothing to you but a license to persecute other people. They are something that you admire and emulate far more than Foxler does. Go on, deny it.

Why would I agree with something that isn't remotely true. You don't know a thing about me. For example, did you know that I'm Jewish? my last name is Osterwise, it used to be Osterweis until immigration changed it. My family fought on both sides of the civil war and a distant relative helped develop the weapons needed to end WWII.

there's a quote from Doctor Who, and I know you're a Whovian because it's on your FA. it's from the second doctor, which given that you're 55 years old, I know you'll appreciate since you would have been 4 when it aired. well, roughly. it's from the episode the Moonbase.

There are some corners of the universe which have bred the most terrible things. Things which act against everything we believe in. They must be fought.

that's the code I live by. Of course on your facebook page (which I've got bookmarked) you'll erroneously post this as me trying to sti...oh..how did you put it? oh! ""I was told by one of these people on Flayrah that their goal is the demise of Furry tolerance.""

I'm not. Because there shouldn't be tolerance towards nazism or intolerance in the first place!

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Why...why do you have her Facebook bookmarked? The fuck?

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actually, i don't have it bookmarked. that was to make about how easy it is to lie on the Internet.

Much like a 55 year old claiming their disabled.

or a 29 year old claiming he didn't know what a nazi was.

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???

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If you go to her FA, she claims to be

a 55 year old disabled person

same on her FA.

Foxler, and Perri, claim that he didn't know what a Nazi was and that all of this is to learn about it.

both of which, insofar as I know, are lies.

My point was to slip something in that would also be a lie to see if anyone would notice and call it out. Just to show how easy it is to do.

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Are you deranged? How does that make any sense in your mind? What does that do but show everyone you're bullshitting and nothing you say is in good faith?

Edit: And what evidence led you to "insofar as you know" that she's lying about being 55 and disabled?

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Thank you. I'm sorry if I've said anything that hurt your feelings during this exchange. I sensed early on that you were not like her. I've been trying not to be unkind to you.

You're welcome to watch my page, if you'd like to know what I'm really all about. I wouldn't mind at all.

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What evidence do I have that she's not?

What evidence does she have that Foxler was "trying to find out what a Nazi was".

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Perri's suggested evidence was a video in which Foxler himself said so--and you don't argue that her sources are crap by wholesale accusing her of lying about her long-standing identity for kicks. Be better than that, seriously.

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"Those who speak of what they know,
Find too late that prudent silence is wise"

I actually have known Perri for a number of years. You can infact be 55 and disabled. Probably shouldn't make assumptions about folks and then act like said assumptions are truth. Might not bode well for you.

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See, I don't know if you've known Perri for a number of years. even then those years could be online where you didn't see her or hear her. I have no way to verify what she or you say.

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You might not have her FB bookmarked, but SOMEBODY from this comment thread (or at the very least, a reader with far too much time on their hands) has gone to her FB, located her RMFC post, and is currently engaging with her in continued debate - to rather poor taste, I must say.

I've reason to believe this "Lou" is the same as the above commenter as the person engaging on FB keeps asserting that Perri sticking up for Folxer is to her benefit somehow - and so far we've only seen one person on this thread making that sort of claim.

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and I have reason to believe this "Lou" is a sock puppet of you, Perri, or one of her friends in an attempt to shame me.

She deserves every piece of slander and libel she gets at this point in my eyes.

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People obsessed with video games do not read history books, unless they have some reason to care. He didn't. At least not until people started calling him a Nazi. Then he started to study up on it, and taking it at face value at first thought he saw something admirable in it. But he eventually began to understand enough about it to realize it was not compatible with Furry, and Furry was more important to him. So he rejected it, and eventually did repent his past. Therefore he no longer espouses beliefs he has long ceased to have any care for. And no matter how many times you refuse to watch the video, or throw up a 3 year old jpeg to deceive others as to his current state of mind, you will do no better than to make your self out to be a liar, a troll, and a persecutor of the innocent.

Ah, I see. So you are a Jewish Nazi. What a remarkable accomplishment. I'm sure your ancestors are quite proud of you. And I do agree with The Doctor as well. In some corner a terrible thing was born that became you. You act against everything we believe in, and you must be fought.

However, I am an American. We did not have Doctor Who when I was 4. We had Dark Shadows instead, which is a show with a theme of redemption, where even the witch, Angelique, was horrible and needed to be fought, and yet could occasionally rise above her dark nature to become heroic. To be kind I shall think of you with that potential, rather than with the finality of the Doctor Who scenario.

Seriously, child, grow up. You are not Vanhellsing and there are no vampires to be hunted here. No one set you up to be judge, jury and executioner of anyone you choose to decry as a Nazi. Destroying peoples' lives is a serious business. When you are told you have missed something about your victim, you have a responsibility to investigate. By what madness do you consider yourself infallible? Does it never cross your self-righteous mind that you could be wrong? That you could be every bit the villain of this piece?

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Ah, I see. So you are a Jewish Nazi. What a remarkable accomplishment. I'm sure your ancestors are quite proud of you.

I'm going to guess that your disabilities are mental based on this sentence right here. Did you take your meds? Why would you even say something like this? it makes no logical sense. You do understand that, right?

And I do agree with The Doctor as well. In some corner a terrible thing was born that became you. You act against everything we believe in, and you must be fought.

you're the one defending a nazi, not me. if anything the Doctor's quote was talking about you.

However, I am an American.

so am I. doesn't make you that special.

No one set you up to be judge, jury and executioner of anyone you choose to decry as a Nazi.

oh the irony, old lady, from the one that keeps calling others Nazi.

When you are told you have missed something about your victim, you have a responsibility to investigate.

I have investigated. Talked to the man himself. Read the articles about him.

Does it never cross your self-righteous mind that you could be wrong? That you could be every bit the villain of this piece?

same questions apply to you, sweetheart.

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I'm going to guess that your disabilities are mental based on this sentence right here. Did you take your meds?

Dude. Uncalled for. Knock it off.

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Mocking someone for being disabled is seriously not okay. That kind of behavior promotes mistreatment and neglect of people with disabilities. Cut it out.

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Maybe this article is affecting me more than i thought but I'm starting to think that that may not be a bad idea for some people.

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Yeah, I hate it when an online discussion affects me so much that I start promoting harm to disabled people and accusing anyone that talks to me of being paid to disagree with me personally on an inconsequential furry news magazine and say that the people disagreeing with me deserve slander and libel because they don't like that I'm acting like a jackass. Happens all the time.

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They're really doing a stellar job of repping....whatever they rep.

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Clearly it does if you're getting snarky like that.

oh. sorry. was there supposed to be a point to your comment?

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Go outside.

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I was gonna cut a promo on you for this, but Equivamp already covered it. So I'll just reiterate: take a chill pill and reflect on your asinine behavior in this discussion, because advocating for the mistreatment of people with disabilities just because you're upset with one person is indefensible and inexcusable.

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Earlier in the thread you stated that people of groups the Nazis oppressed can't be Nazis, now here you are calling a Jewish person a Nazi. If you can't bother to have any tact, at least try to have some consistency.

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Well, that's true. Being Jewish she can't be a Nazi. But it doesn't stop her from trying her damnedest. I guess that makes her a Jewish Would-Be Nazi.

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Well, if he isn't a Nazi then perhaps he should stop with the weird nazi-esque imagery.

If you run around dressing like a furry fascist then why should he be surprised when people treat him like one?

Oh yeah, It's a great way to get tons of attention.

Can all shout about the evil SJW and get more lulz.

It's all edgy asshole trolling at it's finest.

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If you run around dressing like a furry fascist then why should he be surprised when people treat him like one?

well, he "didn't know" what a nazi was according to Perri.

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There is giving a person the benefit of the doubt but at this point I would say we are looking at trolling or willful stupidity.

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It's interesting to note that, whatever tax problems this con had, they could most likely have been worked out, if the con staff had thought the con worth saving. The statement seems to indicate that we lost this con because the state of the fandom made working out the tax problem seem not worth the effort.

The fandom all but demanded of the con staff that they do something they found to be contrary to the fandom's previous tolerance policies. Perhaps the con staff came to the conclusion that this is a new fandom with values unworthy of so much effort and expense. Perhaps the old ideology of tolerance is a thing of the past, and we are now just another fandom, of no unusual quality or value.

In which case, don't be surprised if we see a trend in the old guard declining to put themselves out for us anymore, while the new guard sets up events based on profit and prejudice, which probably won't be nearly as much fun.

But hey, The Furry Community voted for this with its support of intollerance. And I'm a really big fan of people getting what they vote for.

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You have to give it to RMFC – it took the combined effort of Communists, Nazis, and the Feds to bring it down. They lasted a decade, with ever-increasing attendance (from 236 to 1,677). I never visited, but I'm sure plenty will have fond memories.

Personally I might have called it quits after the $30,000 hotel room block debt back in 2009.
Now it's happening eight years later; there's already a "Mile High Fur Con" in the works (they have a Telegram chat, too).
Hopefully it'll be able to take on the torch in the same way that MCFC did when Furry Connection North bowed out.

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Clearly mamma didn't raise no quiters in this case. Especially when some organization will help your with your debt in exchange for 'diplomatic immunity'.

Sure, they could be a cancer that eventually leads to the downfall of your convention, but that's going to happen anyway with the debt you incurred. So what's there to lose?

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So, score another goal for the burned furs, I guess?

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I told you all this would happen.

*Fuck* the burned furs.

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Remember in past years when I'd say the far-right had no place in furry fandom and I got screamed at for being a judgmental hater? Good times.

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To the comments above:
1) Blaming a long dead organization like the Burned Furs, who were more "anti-pornography" than other things, on what occurred here would be akin to blaming the Whig party for America's current political climate. It makes one scratch their head and wonder if you even know what you're talking about.

2) While I can understand people who speak about 'punching' someone, regardless of the reason, should probably not be held to heroic standards. People forget that it is the MAAAC and their Mr. Sargent General SovCiv-Pants whom through the first literal punch. A legal document, whether doctored or legit, is an attack on a person. It may be a legally recognized one (but really only if it is a legit), however it is an ATTACK just the same and I think it's important that we as a society start treating dubious legal attacks like this how they are.

To me they are about as heinous as SWATTING, it ties up our legal resources on garbage, it harasses individuals who at the end of the day are just talking. All the grey area in this case vanishes when you realize that Deo was the only one attacked here, with legal threats, which is a REAL attack; not a GIF of fantasy nose punching.

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*cheers*

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Right, the anti-pornography group that set up Yiffy.tk and supported Yiff, The Musical. They weren't anti-pornography at all. They just wanted to cease power to become the dictators of the fandom. And that's exactly what this Antifa Furs thing is all about.

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This whole thing is ridiculous really.

Seriously, really ridiculous.

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Non-Furry Coverage of event:

Non-Furry Lawyer talks about the C&D Letter: http://lawyersandliquor.com/2017/04/free-furry-of-the-land-when-sovcits-and-furr...

Denver 7 Coverage: http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/amid-allegations-of-unpaid-taxes...

Denver Post (w/Apologies to DogPatch, you got a bit snubbed here): http://www.denverpost.com/2017/04/11/rocky-mountain-fur-con-canceled/

Bleeding Cool (some paragraphs were copied from this and Dogpatch articles, so some redundancy): https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/04/11/nazi-punching-lead-to-a-furry-con-cancel...

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Crazy! The furry news industry is on fire here... more to come too.

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More today:

New York Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/furry-convention-denver-scrubbed-nazi-f...

Toronto Sun - http://www.torontosun.com/2017/04/12/fur-flies-for-furries

It looks like neither of them cover the tax angle. But then again this is the Daily News and the Sun we're talking about. Nazis sell, taxes are boring!

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Daily Beast: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/04/13/neo-nazis-are-tearing-apart-the...

I think this one is the best one I've read yet. Takes all angles and discusses them fully and puts it in good sequential order.

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Even More:

Rolling Stone - Heavy coverage of the Furry Raider's angle: http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/does-the-furry-community-have-a-naz...

AV Club - More heavily from the opposite anti alt-right angle: http://www.avclub.com/article/even-furries-are-no-longer-safe-neo-nazi-meddling-...

News.com.au Another general news article, but this one has a bombshell of sorts hidden in one quote. The RMFC staff member claims that they were approached about the security costs a full month ago. If that is the case then while it could be part of the reason of disbanding it was not the full on catalyst. Otherwise they would have made this announcement weeks ago - http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/wtf/rocky-mountain-fur-convention-can...

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Not necessarily. Scorch noted that they attempted to negotiate first. They just weren't successful, so they had to make a decision about whether to terminate the convention to limit the costs incurred by everyone involved.

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Now for the Youtube videos:

My own on the situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M67DglZDkT4

2's video on the situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYS55QQM6GE

As far as my response on 2's video, I will give him on a plus on being honest about how messed up and stupid the legal letter was (never mentioned its tie to sov-cits though).

Ironically he noted our article (at the 14:00 min mark) in a better light than DogPatch's, but he makes the humorously ironic observation that we're sensationalist (pots calling kettle black, anyone?)

He dismissed the tax thing as "the preferred explanation of those threatening violence." (For context he puts the Deo punch bit as the main catalyst of the conflict that lead to the inevitable closing, also falsly claiming she contacted the authorities/hotel to which in my conversation with her she denied doing this)

It's such a transparent political tactic of 2 to try and tie anyone pointing out are article as being tied with the those threatening violent. Well Deo was the only one who threatened to punch a Furry Raider, but now everyone citing the tax issue are now also threatening violence?

Guess words are really equal to violence these days. Citing tax code is equivalent to punching someone... huh.

Sensationalism, indeed.

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It's fun how 2's butthurt is really a reaction to this. No need to joke about why he's so invested in defending sex offenders, but I will laugh about how my totally unfunny article got 4x as many views as his tepid video.

Speaking of sensationalist, that Rolling Stone puff piece is heinous. I warned the writer and pointed him towards key people and he did it anyways.

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The Rolling Stone is known for their oddities of glorifying heinous figures through their covers.

Just google "rolling stone controversial covers" and you'll find pretty pictures of The Boston Bomber and such.

At that time I recall having parody of the Dr.Hook song: "I keep blastin' bitches but I can't get my picture, on the Cover of the Rolling Stone."

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More crunchy carrots huh? ^_^

Actually, Son, I would say that Antifa was an influence on both articles, though the Dogpatch article was probably written by an Antifa.

The reason I think 2 is right to attach harping on the tax thing to Antifa is because it is a side issue of no consequence that is used to distract from more relevant issues, which is a common troll tactic. 2 says the tax problem had been resolved already, and I tend to believe him, because, logically, if they couldn't survive the tax thing they would have died before any of this started.

So, the cause of death is not either the tax thing or the threat thing, it was a combination of the two pushing things beyond budget, which even then probably could have been survived by going into debt and clearing that up with a fund raiser. But, because of the prospect of violence ruining things, going to all that trouble seemed not worth it. They lost the motivation of serving a pleasant community that was worth going to the wall for.

So, obviously there is nothing particularly significant to the tax thing in terms of killing the con, but there is something significant to the threats of violence, and one has to wonder why people keep saying, "Don't look at the obvious reason, look at this side issue." That's like defending Deo, and why would anyone who was not under the influence of Antifa want to defend Deo?

Did 2 say Deo contacted the hotel, or did he say she contacted the police and con security? I seem to remember him saying the hotel got wind of it on its own.

Everyone hyping the tax issue may not be tied to glossing over the threats of violence, but I do notice they tend to have a fanatical anti-Furry Raiders stance. Thus, people hyping the tax issue may not be card carrying Antifa, but they have certainly bought into Antifa's fear mongering, and don't want anything taking heat off the unsubstantiated claim that Furry Fandom has a white supremacist infestation. Nor do they want anyone thinking that the people promoting this unreasoning fear might themselves be the problem.

Add to this that paranoia and condemnation of The Furry Raiders is the dominant view of those posting here, and that those same people try to brand anyone who contraries them as a Nazi, and it becomes pretty obvious that Flayrah has the infestation problem. It's dominated by Antifa and Antifa supporters who will not even stand to defend anyone being accused of being a Nazi, even when it's well known that they're not.

So, giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're actually trying to be unbiased, I don't see why you're having a problem with 2 calling you out on that. Even though your own article spotlights testimony that the tax problem was already taken care of, in the comments you continue to hype the tax problem and attempt to brush the threats under the table, because the consensus at Flayrah is that any violence against a person labeled as a Nazi is justified. And the regular posters here will attack, troll, defame, badger and humiliate anyone who actively opposes that consensus. Unbiased this site is not. And you'd have to have a serious denial problem not to know that by now.

Yes, 2 is a sensational commentator. But I don't think that's the definition of sensationalism in journalism. Furries associate sensationalism in journalism with deliberate and extreme distortion or falsifying of the facts to gain ratings. 2 doesn't need to do that. He could read the nutrition facts off a box of cereal and make them sensational without having to doctor them in the least.

You don't do that in your actual article, but your article is actually rather small. Really, it's just a lead in to the comments section where people will get the bulk of what they take away from your site. And the comments are filled with sensationalism, which you know will automatically be there, since the posters at this site haven't changed much over the years, and their negativism towards the tolerance of the fandom can be well documented. So it's hardly surprising they'd be quick to jump on the Antifa bandwagon.

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Actually, Son, I would say that Antifa was an influence on both articles, though the Dogpatch article was probably written by an Antifa.

the nazis had a word for stuff like this, where they accused the media of having an agenda and lying. they called it Lügenpresse, or lying press.

It was used to silence dissenters. It's the same thing that the Trump Administration is doing.

and it's the same thing you're doing now.

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Americans have a term also. It's called "Tabloid Press," often extended to "Supermarket Tabloid Press." Also sometimes called "Yellow Journalism." Look it up.

Also, it is well known that mainstream news in America, like the "Tabloid Press," is entertainment based and not at all concerned with being accurate or putting an impartial spin on things. Being as just about everyone has some cognizance of this, Trumps comments about fake news might as well have been rhetorical, as it's all fake to an extent. That's why people with access to the internet tend to skip American mainstream news and go to alternative media.

Now, I have my skepticism of alternative news sources as well. RT certainly has incentive to be biased. And The Young Turks seem to have their pet biases as well. So, where in the world can one turn for news they know is never in any way fake? Don't know. Have never found a source I trust completely. It's always a matter of having to look at the same story from several sources and trying to form an opinion about whatever facts seem to be consistent.

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Another day another classic Sunweaver quote.

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my point went over your head.

I expected better from a writer with 8 whole novels on her website!

My point was that your labeling people based on their supposed agenda (seen through your eyes only of course) is exactly what an evil dictator and a dictator wanna be did and are doing. It's subversive and does absolutely NOTHING to help the conversation and only helps people who see you as a certainly way.

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Nazis had another practice; silencing of the critics. And I say again, you should be ashamed of yourself for acting like a Nazi, and then trying to silence people by accusing them of what you're doing.

Putting labels on people is your tactic, but in this case you keep putting the label on yourself. You either don't have a clue what classic Nazi behavior was, or you're deliberately adopting it because you're secretly a fan of it.

I don't care if you are Jewish, the only one aping Nazis around here is you, and I don't believe for one minute you're not aware of it. Furthermore, I'm not the only one who's pointed that out to you Antifa nutcases. But you don't care. You think you own the word and are free to redefine it at your convenience.

Thus, since you believe in Nazi tactics and practices, you ought to be able to join a pro-Nazi group. So why don't you apply for The Furry Raiders if you think they're so into what you're into? Oh yeah, they won't have you, because they're not a Nazi group and they don't allow hateful people in their circle. Besides, all their hippie-like love and peace talk would make you sick. Being a Nazi aper you hate pacifism. You like to punch people who make a point that bothers you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAnGIYlh0A8

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Why don't we just return to reality for a minute? Where we've all seen the evidence that The Furry Raiders are not aliens, but they're aliens!
You were wrong. Your fight with Kylie about insanity might not be wrong. But your base point re: the Furry Raiders; you were wrong.

http://www.nerdandtie.com/2017/04/12/the-bizarre-fall-of-rocky-mountain-fur-con/

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Not gonna read it. Read Rolling Stone. It's an actual magazine. Wikipedia would regard it as a credible source of citations. No need to read any other account. No need to consider any of your arguments. You're a troll. Trolls are lower than Nazis. And if Nazis are not human, trolls must be pure vermin. So who cares what they have to say?

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Perri: "la la la I'm not listening! Foxler is an innocent victim of Antifa and Burned Furs as well as other groups no ones ever heard of / don't exist anymore!"

The above article actually used citations.

Evidence. Evidence. Evidence.

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Not even clicking on your links anymore, 'cos everyone knows any so-called evidence offered by a troll is not to be believed. And everyone knows you came here from Sunweavers specifically to troll me. So it's pretty obvious any point you're trying to prove would have to be false.

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Right now my average post rating is 4.3 (it tells me in the post notification emails) while most of your posts have 1 star.
Anon doesn't equal "Troll" - things you dislike, do not equal "troll", so maybe a vocabulary adjustment. I thought I was communicating with someone intelligent enough to have a conversation. I concede points to Niko for things he pointed out.

I guess you aren't Furry Enough (that's an Uncle Kage line, since you won't get the reference) to give the same respect to someone else. (it's not just me, I haven't seen you give anyone in this comments section any respect)
But then I see below, you're saying Foxler is "exonerated" - so I see you can't take the Sunweaver into the light.

Before you said "There is no evidence" now you say: "I will ignore all evidence I do not agree with." And soon you'll say "All the evidence is false and was only spread around by haters and trolls."
But at this point I can only chalk your views up to being a Sunweaver, your obsession with Antifa is telling - and as far as I can tell, Kylie and I are the only ones bothering to interface with you anyway. Probably because Kylie is just young (over 18, not familiar with how to avoid drama yet), and me because I'm one of your neighbors.
Also your new resolve for willful ignorance provides the viewers with a clear parallel to Foxler's claim of WW2 ignorance.
We know you know and have read the above evidence. We know Foxler knows better.
He's even told people "I won't wear the armband" in order for permission to come to an event, and then wears it anyway. Crying intolerance and oppression whenever he's asked by furs running the events to remove it.

Remember how I pointed out that Sunweavers are basically the same thing as the Furry Raiders minus the armband and minus the real life presence? You keep working towards proving that for me.

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I am in my 30s. I'm just tired of people like her.

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Perri please get run over by a dump truck now. The shitposting was old before you started.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y5iWjJLCc0

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Jesus christ get over yourself. go play on second life, work on your shitty writing, masturbate, something besides inflicting your demented meandering shitposts on this place any more.

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Awwww. Am I torturing the little troll?

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Felt like pointing out that the above person is a different Anon. :o
I (the person who has called you out on being a Sunweaver last week) tend to avoid curse words. Even when I do curse; I'm sure it happens with everyone, I don't tend to go off into sexual habits. Nor would I knock your writing which I've never read, but am actually open to reading.

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Guilt by association, pal. Anyone who supports a troll must be a troll. And one troll might as well be another. Hey, you set these precedents. So don't go killing yourself because you get treated by them.

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Guilt by association, pal.

so since you support a Nazi that makes you a Nazi, right?

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I hate to say this but point to Kylie here. Taking someone's side in an argument doesn't automatically mean you're whatever they are.

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I also feel like replying to you, buying into passive aggression only begets more of it.
Perri has already shown us "Well you guys aren't letting me have the last word so I'm going to post until I get it!" ("you guys keep sending me more carrots") and "la la la I'm not listening!"

Essentially, what you wrote encourages her. She's a Sunweaver. You have to know how they think. Perri doesn't bother me. I don't know why Perri bothers Kylie so much.

I only spoke up because, Furry Raiders are finally getting comeuppance for what they do around here and low and behold, lol, the Sunweavers are the only people dumb enough to stand up for them. Which is their A-typical stance on things.

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Damn straight no one's listening to you anymore. Any question of this still being a valid discussion ended when the Nazis weighed in and exonerated Foxler. You're just trolling now, beating a dead horse. And it's been a while since I stopped wasting my time trying to compose serious ideas for someone I know doesn't care about the issue one way or the other. You're just trolling me out of spite for reasons I haven't got a clue about. Maybe if you want to reveal who you are and what your real issue is with me we can deal with it. In the meantime I'm just counter-trolling you, because watching you bust a blood vessel trying to get me to take your slander seriously is a hoot.

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Mistaking the other anon for me "busting a blood vessel" is far from me being bothered by any of this. As I said in my post, you = passive aggressive.

I actually have some emotional tranquility and can deal. I'm still open to reading, or at least skimming one of your books. I don't think the comment the other Anon made was right. You're a person too Perri.

Watching you try to get all the other Sunweavers to spin their wheels about this has been a serious hoot for me though. The group notices have been interesting too, if not laughable as everyone pretends that no one ever said any of these things and they're just your average happy open welcoming loving group.
Just like the Furry Raiders.

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Do me a favor. Don't read my stuff. I don't write for trolls.

And if you had any sense of tranquility, you'd be discussing your issues calmly in my living room in Second Life, rather than launching anonymous attacks like a stupid coward shaking in his/her paw boots for fear that I'm going to do something horrible to you if you reveal who you are.

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Send me a teleport.

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How the hell am I supposed to send you a teleport when I don't know who you are? You know where I live. Just show up.

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I don't know why Perri bothers Kylie so much.

because she claims to be intelligent enough to write 8 (unpublished) novels that she put on her website yet she can't see that Foxler is a Nazi and the Furry Raiders are a Nazi organization no matter how much evidence is put in front of her.

It's frustrating to watch someone claim to be so intelligent in fact turn out to be not. I'd say a lot harsher, but i'm going to give the benefit the doubt here.

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Maybe, if you were half as intelligent as me, you would have been smart enough to get inside The Furry Raiders Facebook group and see what actually goes on in there, rather than basing your opinions entirely on troll based evidence. But then, you'd probably just troll them anyway, not caring that the evidence they are a loving support group was staring you in the face. All that would matter to you is they won't accept dictates you have no right to force on them.

You hate The Furry Raiders because the concept of their group is to actively oppose the intolerant influences you and your Antifa ilk have poisoned The Furry Community with. It's highly likely the real purpose of the arm bands was just to attract your attention and get you to reveal your true nature. In which case I would say the tactic was highly successful.

I had serious doubts when they first came out with comments to the effect that there was a devastating movement of intolerance ruining the fandom. At first I thought they were the ones reviving the Burned Fur rhetoric. But you've shown me they were right, and that it is the Antifa that are waging a war against the tolerance of the fandom.

And The Furry Raiders are going to totally defeat you through passive resistance. They're just going to sit there and take it as you mercilessly beat on them until the rest of us get totally disgusted with watching it and kick your would-be totalitarian asses out, just like we did the Burned Furs before you.

That is my prophecy. Remember it when you find the fandom turning on you.

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Exposed.

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So what do they talk about in their Facebook group, Perri? Because this is what one of their admins talks about publicly on Twitter:

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Actually all are retweets what others had posted. Not even a nice tray

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On Twitter, when viewing a post someone has retweeted, the original poster of the Tweet is still credited, and the person who retweeted it is denoted in small text at the top of the tweet. So no, these aren't retweets, though I can't understand why retweeting someone saying these things without commentary would be acceptable to you anyway.

The first tweet is a response to somebody else, the other two are standalone tweets, but both were originally posted by this sergal person.

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I think I can not find this albinosergal/Maple either in the Furry Raiders group, or through googling, and therefore not on Twitter. And, like Acton said, they're all replies to a troll, offered with no context. And thus, inadmissible as evidence.

Besides, it's easy to imagine the context that went with these. And also the symbol seen in the pics is a swastika, not the Furry Raiders logo.

So, yeah. Nice try, but again, trolls lose.

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Um.

https://twitter.com/AlbinoSergal

http://www.furryraiders.org/about

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Ok, a confirmed admin, under suspension for . . . guess what . . . Hate speech.

Yeah, Foxler must be really into hate speech if he suspends admins for it.

I don't know what to make of the conversation around the pics shown above. It looks like she's being trolled by someone called Sorry, who is throwing up pics, and Maple is possibly saying the pics were used to make memes. But honestly, I can't read Twitter. I don't see anything to indicate there's anything sinister going on here, as apposed to something stupid. So this certainly isn't something I'm going to use to condemn a whole group of people.

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You must not know how to search for users on Twitter.

C'mon Perri, I know you're better than this. Shoot better, dammit.

Though, it is worth nothing that as of 6 hours ago he has been suspended as an admin of Furry Raiders. Looks like someone must've brought up the tweets.

https://twitter.com/AlbinoSergal/status/854467359846920200

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Actually, I'm not better than this. There are reasons I don't use it. For one thing, my account is suspended for reasons unknown. And even if I could use it, I do not tweet. I can not communicate in short bursts of dialogue. And I can not read short bursts of dialogue with any great comprehension. It's unnatural and destructive to one's intelligence. Not to mention useless in proving anything, and a great way of having your intent misunderstood by thousands of people.

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oh god..you're an elitist to boot. Shoulda guessed.

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But then, you'd probably just troll them anyway, not caring that the evidence they are a loving support group was staring you in the face

that's ironic coming from you of all people.

But you've shown me they were right, and that it is the Antifa that are waging a war against the tolerance of the fandom.

one shouldn't be tolerant of intolerance, dear. Only a Nazi would expect that.

They're just going to sit there and take it as you mercilessly beat on them until the rest of us get totally disgusted with watching it and kick your would-be totalitarian asses out, just like we did the Burned Furs before you.

I don't know who or what this 'Burned Fur' crap is, but I'm laughing at you. I oppose physical violence on anyone unless it is for self-defense.

I'm not antifa. I had never even heard of them until you mentioned them.

I am against Nazi imagery. Gee, I can't imagine why..oh..wait..that's right. I mentioned why earlier in this article's comments section.

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Well, if your against Nazi imagery, you've got a real problem. Because history is not going to go away, and people are not going to stop being interested in it as inspiration for stories and art. Especially now that your complaining about it has generated so much interest in it that wasn't there before.

Now that you've done this stupid s--t, there is going to be Nazi art everywhere. You and your lot have actually popularized it. It's going to be the pop-culture phenomenon of this age. They'll be selling Nazi arm bands at Hot Topic before this is done. It'll be the in thing to wear in protest of Antifa. It'll lose all sense of connection to WW2, and with it, all the horror and discomfort it holds for the public.

I hope you've got the number of a good psychiatrist. Because when Nazi imagery becomes commonplace, you're really going to need one.

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"It's going to be the pop-culture phenomenon of this age." Certainly has nothing to do with Trump. Certainly isn't happening already. Must be because of Furries.

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They'll be selling Nazi arm bands at Hot Topic before this is done.

NeoNazism has been a thing before you came along, grandpa. I'm actually surprised you know what a hot topic is.

Speaking of psychiatrists, how's your mom?

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Going after Perri's age, and Mother, are not correct behavior.
Yes, Perri is ... stepping in it right now. We need to know where the lines are ourselves too.

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Nazis had another practice; silencing of the critics

which is what you've been doing with your antifa BS.

so blind. again, I expected better.

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you Antifa nutcases.

Nazis had another practice; silencing of the critics.

oh...the irony...

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Separating out all opinions on this topic to "pro-antifa" or "pro-nazi" doesn't help things, and in fact only helps those groups.

Flayrah has a lazzie-faire stance on the comment section. Judging a site purely by their comment section would make Youtube the worst site humanity has ever concocted.

I would rather the intense debates happen then not, as it gives a larger perspective on thing, I don't always respond to them, but I do give them a glance over. I have a 47+ hour job and now have a hobby that takes the rest of it, so I have less time to go into lengthy debates on the internet as I used to.

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Another scandal; another Sunweaver (or two) making their group look retarded.
What is old is new again.

Quiet on the set, everyone take their places on the stage. It's starting.
"From the furries who brought you 'All the Muslims in the world need to be killed!' today we bring you, The Furry Raiders are good people!!" *crowd applauds with ferver*

From the Sunweavers group chat; possibly written by the same Perri or Linni above.
[2016/09/25 20:27] (Name Redacted): Allow me to be Blunt. If I have the power I would Kill Every Muslim.
And if not, well, the rest of the group chat is cheering them on anyway.

Most people know the Sunweavers are racist old people at this point. It's unsurprising they show up to defend the Furry Raiders.

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Kylie go outside already.

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I know you're obsessed with me and everything, Niko. But I was at the store at the time of this posting. go do me a favor? Go take a long walk off a short pier.

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Obsessed? I'm not the one making comments at folks on twitter or commenting on facebook posts.

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Yes, obsessed. you think everyone is me. that's an obsession.

Second, Twitter is a public entity that allows users to repost items from other users. If you don't like it, don't post.

Third, sorry Niko but I don't have a facebook to comment on facebook posts.

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I've never even heard of this group.

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Wait a minute. You actually had to go back to 09/16 to find something controversial in a group chat an entire community participates in? And why would you redact the name if the comment was from me or Niko? Anyway, I can't find this quote in any of my chat logs. So obviously I never saw it. And if I never saw it, I wasn't even part of the conversation, assuming you didn't make the whole thing up from scratch.

But lets just assume that you do have a Sunweavers chat log. That would make you a Sunweaver, wouldn't it? I mean, a Sunweavers chat log is not the easiest thing to procure unless you actually live there. And, if all Sunweavers are old racists, what would that say about you? Do you enjoy the company of old racists? That would make you an old racist, wouldn't it?

Now, I don't want to make you feel nervous or anything. But I'm pretty sure if you leave this up the sim owners are going to see it. And I'm pretty sure they're going to take it personally. Also, the time stamp is probably going to give them a pretty good idea who you are. So, I sincerely hope you don't have a lot invested in your home at Sunweavers.

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I didn't have to go back to 9/16, it's just low hanging fruit. Same as things like this.

[2015/08/02 15:44] Perri Prinz: All feds are terrorists. Thanks for confessing.

or this

[2015/12/21 19:07] Perri Prinz: American victimization and exploitation is the best Americans can and do consistantly vote for.

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Yep, those are mine. You definitely are one of my neighbors. But are those the worst you could come up with?

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I'm sorry, you have me mistaken for someone trying to be an asshole. I'm not Kylie, who is looking to be a bit nuts, and I'm definitely not someone who would even consider trying to defend neo-nazi assholes like the Furry Raiders. I'm not your common ignorant type; there's a reason I didn't put the name of the person who said the other comment. And it's to (foolishly) protect him.

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Protect him, or protect yourself? It could just as easily be your comment. And, no I don't have you mistaken with someone being an asshole. You're a certified asshole. And you are a certified fool if you think someone like me would lift a finger to defend anyone who was an actual Neo-Nazi. I'm here to protect innocent furs from the persecution of idiot Furries who believe lies and deceptions written by trolls and Burned Furs.

Oh, I agree. A common ignorant type you're not. Ignorance of the type that would lead Furries to destroy their own community is extraordinarily spectacular ignorance. As a matter of fact, when I find out who you are, I'm going to build a shrine in Sunweavers to your ignorance. Because ignorance as spectacular as yours deserves to be remembered.

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Pretty much the type of response I expect from a Sunweaver.

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you think someone like me would lift a finger to defend anyone who was an actual Neo-Nazi

*sees an entire argument defending Foxler*

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*sees a person called Kylie who wouldn't know a real Nazi if he had his jackboot on her neck*

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I see one right here. Right down to the language you use.

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That's sad, you know. You being Jewish and all. Being out here in the world, eroding the memory of what happened in WW2 by setting up pacifists like me as examples of what Nazis were like. While being totally oblivious to the fact that your behavior comes right out of the Nazi handbook. Guilt by association, dehumanization of your intended victims, suppression of free speech, intimidation through threats of violence, unreasoning hatred of those you define as an inferior class of people, use of propaganda to make the unacceptable acceptable.

How is it possible that someone of your background can be so unfamiliar with what a Nazi is that you've pretty much allowed yourself to become a shining example of everything that makes a Nazi terrifying? And if someone of your background can be that unfamiliar with the actual nature of Nazis, why is it implausible that there could be any truth in Foxler's claims of his own ignorance?

Why would I give him the benefit of the doubt? Because you've shown me that ignorance of the true nature of Nazis is common in recent generations. And because not a scrap of evidence exists that he has ever demonstrated the kind of Nazi-like repugnant behavior you have displayed.

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Not a scrap! 'except for this this and this' (((quick now lets pretend it doesn't exist, I mean it's not like Lamar and Sonius haven't posted multiple pieces of evidence)))

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It's a SecondLife group. If I hadn't already known who she was, it's also the SecondLife location written in her Flayrah profile.
Unlike Kylie who thinks Perri is somehow related to the Furry Raiders, I just see a Sunweaver being a Sunweaver. Niko is also a Sunweaver, and now that I'm pointing this out, I won't be surprised if other Sunweavers show up.

I went with Anon because I'm in the Sunweavers group and am silent there. I don't like being ignorant, and I don't intend on getting kicked out. :p

Could point to more Sunweavers = Furry Racists information if Niko likes. My logs go back quite a few years. They just rant and rant about shit all the time. How black people are a poison, how Obama is an idiot for his "war on coal" etc.
My logs go back quite a few years, I've been considering writing an exposé on them. But then again, there are one or two nice people who aren't like that at all in there. So you have to weigh the pros and cons. Some are just loudmouth idiots who get into trouble everywhere they go and the Sunweavers were one of the only places left for them. Others still are just Sunweavers by affiliation and don't realize the group has those things going on.

If it's not racism, it's saying they wish other members of SecondLife would die (courtesy of The Pink Blunder) or similarly shitty negativity in general. I've seen other members ask the groups founder why that's allowed, and just get ignored. All in all, "typical furry drama!" so I tend to think it's not worth writing about. However they do tend to pipe up during stories like this to stand up for the other racists, I guess.

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I'm kinda really more or less in Sunweavers as a couple of my friends are. I don't even really partake in the group chats. I barely exist in Second Life to begin with.

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So in other words I've been right about Perri, I've just had the wrong group.

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I don't think you've ever been right in your life. But if you wanted to know what groups I belong to, you could just have asked. It's not like I have a secret to my name. Just Google Perri Rhoades and you can see everywhere I've ever been on the net.

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I assure you, I have.

Know Your Enemy is thing you know. Nazis and racists like you are my enemies.

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Hey, remember how it was creepy and bizarre and fucked up when you suggested that you had bookmarked her Facebook page earlier? Well, the same concept still applies here.

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well, okay.

1. I don't care what you think to be perfectly honest.
2. look underneath his and your comments. See the little boxes? not that hard to right click one and "open in new tab" there chief. I could probably find out more info about you than I actually cared to just by going to your google+ profile.

This is why I've never signed up under a real name or stuck to a name for long.

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It's not about clicking the profiles Perri's linked to this account to establish who you're talking to, it's about Googling her online name to find everywhere she's been on the Internet because you consider her an "enemy" (when literally you would find that removing her influence on your life is as simple as going away) because she's saying dumb shit on the Internet. It's about how you don't know how to act around people and being paranoid that people are sockpuppets or Big Foxler shills despite the only person here clinging to anonymity is you.

It's one thing to have problems with social skills and it's another to have people who would otherwise agree with you tell you you're being a dick or going too far and then sticking your fingers in your ears. Get some perspective, man.

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That's twice now you've noticed there is something seriously off about Kylie. She's obsessed, feels no obligation to fairness or conscience, and is seriously not interested in anything that might show her vindictive and hateful activities might not be justified.

On the chance that you are a nice person who has fallen under the influence of bad people, I urge you not to let people like Kylie control your perspective. You have the freedom to go out and investigate things for yourself. You have a heart and a conscience to tell you if it's right to go around relentlessly persecuting people you don't know.

I understand if you don't think much of me. I'm just some stranger on the internet. But if your instincts are telling you not to follow Kylie, for God's sake listen to them.

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Just so you know, I don't appreciate being told that the things I'm saying you don't agree with are the result of some sinister outside influence and that really, deep down I must be a nice person who agrees with you, because it's obvious I just can't have my own thoughts if they don't align closely enough with yours. Jeez.

No, I don't know anyone like Kylie online or off. People who make the arguments you're making, though, are so abundant as to be tired.

Thanks for your concern about the Burned Fur Cabal controlling my mind though.

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Really? People making my points are abundant? That's nice to know. Maybe, just possibly, there's a good reason for that.

I wish you well.

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There certainly is a reason for it, but you wouldn't wanna hear it if I told you ;3

"Abundant" doesn't mean "dominant" anyway

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I challenge you to find a community of human beings anywhere that doesn't have some racists in it. In fact, most of the people here in this discussion are racist. Niko and I are probably the only two fanatical anti-racists here. Everybody else is looking to persecute somebody because of their appearance. And that to me is the ultimate in racism.

But what can you do? Racists are everywhere. If you killed everybody who could be shown to be a little bit racist, it would be a very sparsely populated planet.

Anybody here who is actually not racist, probably has racists in their family, or racist friends. If we didn't have the capacity to tolerate a certain amount of racism in others, we'd all be very lonely.

The reason for this is, when you come right down to it, racism is an opinion. Everybody's got an opinion. And being well adjusted to society means you have a tolerance for the fact that most opinions are going to be different from yours.

Thus, as a Second Life club owner, I'm not in the habit of watching chat and judging people on the basis of their opinions. If somebody comes into my club and says they hate black people, I don't see that as an excuse to beat them up and throw them out. I see that as an excuse to open a discussion and maybe lay a little enlightenment on them. But if they create a disruption or start attacking people, they will definitely get bounced out.

But if people are just hanging out expressing opinions that I don't agree with, I'll either offer my opinion for contrast or let it slide, because contrary to what most ass-hole Social Justice Warriors think, it is not my job to control what goes on in other peoples' heads.

Sure, Sunweavers has a couple of people who's opinions I tend to be offended by on a regular basis. But I don't hate or sensor them for that, because just like in real life, you have to get along with the people you live with, even if it occasionally becomes a strain.

But on the whole it is an extrodinarily nice community with very strict rules against hate speech and offensive imagery. Heck, once somebody put up a huge cross that could be seen all over the sim, and the owners had it taken down because I found it offensive. I see no basis at all in a charge that the owners don't act on complaints. I don't even think I could invite The Furry Raiders to tea in that sim, unless they left their armbands home.

So, I'm sorry. I don't know who you are or why you're saying this stuff about a place you want to continue calling home, but it sounds like a load of sour grapes to me.

Yeah, most of us there are old, a lot of us are veterans, a lot of us are semi-famous Furry artists. We're generally friendly, welcoming, happy to be of assistance. It's not perfect by a long shot, but if your a Furry looking for a home, I don't think you can do better in SL.

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This is why nobody likes it when you show up

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I know I'm not well liked at Flayrah. That's why I don't come here often. But most of the folks here know there's an easy way to make me disappear. All they have to do is stop holding out carrots to lure me back.

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What's not to like? It seems that's a post recognising the fallibility of people and defending freedom of speech.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~

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Yes Rakuen I'm sure you and Perri will get along great living in your fantasy world where racism is an "opinion" but not wanting to go to events lead by child molesters is a "crime" deserving of banishment from the furry fandom.

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How is thinking one race is better than another not an opinion? I mean, unless it's fact, but good luck proving that.

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Fair that that definition of racism would meet a dictionary's definition of opinion--but I hold both that "racism" defines a broader cultural phenomenon than "thinking one race is better than another" and that "opinion" has a different nuance than what that phenomenon conveys, particularly with regards to how people are expected to respond to it.

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Well sure, racism is not an opinion if you both redefine racism and redefine opinion but at that point we aren't really talking about the same thing any more, are we?

And where did I say anything about banishing people? I didn't. People should be free to associate, or not associate, with whoever they choose. However, I do feel it important to point out that his conviction for child molestation has nothing to do with the furry convention. While you may want to avoid him as a person, avoiding an event just because someone there was involved in illegal or immoral activity does not always make sense.

Indeed, doing so can actually be harmful to society. If you recall the scene in Zootopia where Nick talks about his past he notes that if society will only see a sly fox then there is no reason to change. If you will constantly judge people on past crimes then you remove any reason for them to change and only serve to push people back into criminal activities.

"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified i